Today we're going to talk about HubSpot. It's a great tool if you believe that you can generate business and grow your business using the website, email, etc.. We'll start by saying that everything we do to attract new business, both for ourselves and our customers online, can be done effectively without HubSpot.
Yeah. I don't think you need any paid tool, do you, to do the basic kind of write good content, publish good content, get everything out there, attract new customers. But I think the thing with HubSpot is that it makes all of those things a lot easier, right?
It's the way that everything's joined up.
Yeah. And I think also the kind of power of it is just in how granular the data you get is, right? So when somebody fills in a form on your website, it tells you what page they were on when they filled it in, what other pages they've looked at, how long they spent on your site. Like you say, the connectedness is in being able to see the exact path that someone's taken.
Okay, welcome back to the From The Coalface podcast. And today I'm with Alex, who's here with me in the studio. So I can't take the Mickey quite like I normally do because he's actually bigger than me and he's within distance to actually hit me. And would I be kinder today? Alex, I promise. Um, today we're going to talk about HubSpot. Uh, we're not going to talk about HubSpot in HubSpot is we're not going to use their language.
Their wonderful, wonderful jargon.
Yeah. That's right. What we're going to talk about is, uh, the way that we've used it and the way that we see our customers using it. I mean, we'll start out by saying that we do love it.
Um, this isn't going to be a sales pitch. We promise.
It's not. No, no, it's definitely not. If anyone's ever spoken to the guys at HubSpot, they'll, they'll know all about the HubSpot sales pitch is, is a thing of beauty, I would say. But, um, what we're going to do is just talk about it in, in, in very practical terms, this is, after all, the Digital Marketing From The Coalface podcast. So from the coalface, This is how we see and use HubSpot. And we'll start by saying that everything we do to attract new business, both for ourselves and our customers online, can be done and can be done effectively without HubSpot.
Yeah. I don't think you need any paid tool, do you, to, to do the basic kind of write good content, publish good content, get everything out there, attract new customers. But I think the thing with HubSpot is that it makes all of those things a lot easier, right? Quicker?
Yeah, I'd say so. Um, it's, it's the way that everything's joined up, I think. So when somebody fills in a form on your website, that information goes straight into a common database that's used both by the marketing platform, the, um, CRM, customer relationship management platform, the, what do they call it? We were talking about just before the service hub.
Yeah.
All the kind of the, uh, yeah, the, the, the, the, the operations side of things as well. So you've just got one version of the truth effectively.
Yeah. And I think also the kind of power of it is just in how granular the data you get is, right? So when somebody fills in a form on your website, it tells you what page they're on, when they filled in, what other pages they've looked at, how long they spent on your site. Yeah. And okay, fine. You know, technically you can get a lot of that information using Google Analytics, say, or something like that. But it's in the kind of like you say, the connectedness, it's in being able to see the exact path that someone's taken that. Yeah, I think it's most useful.
Let's start by outlining in, in very broad terms what HubSpot actually is. Let's start with, um, the marketing side of things. So from a marketing perspective, you can either host your entire website, including your blog on the HubSpot platform, or you can choose to say, keep your website separate to HubSpot and use HubSpot just for your blog and for landing pages to send. Send people to. If you're, um, if you're running paid search, for example, but let's just assume that you've gone all in on HubSpot. Sure. So what you would do is you would use it to, number one, build your website.
Mhm.
Okay. And it's effectively a bit like WordPress or some of these other systems out there. It's a content management system that lets you manage the content of your website. Just completely stating the obvious there.
Yeah. What does a content management system do?
It manages content.
Who would who would have thought? Uh, but yeah, no, I mean, and it is good to be fair, isn't it? I mean, hubspot's content management system is kind of, you know, state of the art. It's it's one of the better ones. Um, it is nice and easy to use. Certainly our designers never complain about designing templates for HubSpot at all, do they? Diana.
Uh, no. And again.
Cries silently in the.
Back. So effectively, If you have a marketing team and you need that marketing team to be able to add new content to your website, that might be a sales page, you know, buy this from us. This is a great thing that we do. Or it might be a blog as in like, here's our opinion on this particular subject, or it might be a one off landing page that you're going to send traffic to from a Google Ads campaign or something like that. Um, what else? Anything else?
I think that's the main ones.
Wise.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's probably it. This is a tool that lets you do all that without any sort of geeky stuff at all. You know, anybody can log in and create new pages, edit pages, add to pages, just do whatever you want. And it really is a super slick tool.
Yeah. I mean, I'm not particularly tech savvy at all, as you know. That's not true. I think the first time I logged into HubSpot, I was honestly expecting it to be quite complicated. And I think it took me about three minutes to work out where everything went, how everything should look. It's dead simple, isn't it?
That's right. And I would say that there's a fantastic academy, HubSpot Academy where you can learn any aspect of the HubSpot system. Plus, you simply cannot sign up to use HubSpot without buying an onboarding package, either with HubSpot or with an agency like us or other agencies or HubSpot agencies. So you never get like presented with the software. And like, there you go, there it is. Off you go. Good luck. Thanks for the money. It's not like that. So they hand, they handhold you the whole time. And and either the either an agency will handhold you or HubSpot will.
Yeah. I think mandatory onboarding process sounds quite scary. Um, I'll be honest, it's not really as scary as it sounds, is it? They're not super expensive.
There's a really good reason for doing it. You know, it is great software. It's easy to use software. But they also recognise that if, if you're just thrown at this system and you go off and start using it, there's a good chance you'll fail. And if you fail, then after the first year, because you commit to a twelve month contract initially with them. You're just going to say no thanks and walk away and that's no good for them. They're looking for people to sign up to HubSpot, run their business on HubSpot for the next five, ten, fifteen, twenty years. That's their business model.
Yeah, it's there is, I guess because of how interconnected everything is, I guess a relatively steep learning curve in learning to use all the little bits of it connected, aren't they?
That's right.
Yeah. To get the most out of it is hard, I think.
Yeah. You know, one of the nice things about their content management system, one of the nice things about the tool used to create web pages is they don't just give you tools that are really easy to use. They actually guide you as well. So they'll tell you if like this page looks like it doesn't have much content on it, you need to put some more content in it. You haven't, you know it. You could tell the page, you tell the software, maybe the search terms, the keywords, which we haven't blogged podcasted about yet. Uh, it tells you that, you know, you put them in and it says, well, you maybe you're not using them enough, that kind of thing. It doesn't look like it's well optimised. It basically guides you so that you produce a website, a blog, whatever it is. Um, and that is effective. You know, it guides you towards making sure that, um, the stuff that you're doing on the website is effective. Would you agree with that?
Yeah, absolutely. And then I think there's other things as well, like when you're kind of creating a blog in HubSpot, it'll kind of prompt you to add CTAs every so often. That's a call to action or, you know, a bit where you kind of entice people to do something like give you their email address for some content or sign up to your newsletter or whatever. That's right. And I think, you know, certainly one of the things I'm really guilty of when I'm typing a blog is getting very kind of carried away and forgetting to kind of do anything like that. So it's nice to have something there that's kind of prompting me and okay, it's not the most advanced thing in the world, but just having a kind of laundry list of things that should be in your blog post is quite, quite nice, really.
So in its simplest form, the marketing side of HubSpot is a website management system. Yeah, in a nutshell. So if you, if you, if you listen to this because you're thinking, well, I'm still not that sure what HubSpot is. If you've ever used WordPress or Joomla or Craft or Drupal or Umbraco, keep going. Yeah, there's loads of them. They are all systems to help you manage your website. If you've ever used any of those systems, then you would probably really enjoy using the HubSpot system. That's not to say there aren't situations where you there's something you need to do, and you can't do it because you are buying into what's known as software, as a system or SaaS. So you don't get a copy of the software, put it on your own server, and do what you like with it. The whole thing is hosted by HubSpot, which is great.
Well, I was gonna say it's nice. It's nice, isn't it? Because again, for the non-tech savvy, that means you've got nothing to break, nothing that you can accidentally.
Software to keep updated. There's no backups to do. It's all taken care of within the SaaS platform, which is fantastic. And the other thing that that works quite well is, you know, the main purpose of your website, if you're in business is to attract new customers. Agreed. Yeah. Yeah. So if you're using your website to attract new customers, a lot of the time you're hoping that people will fill in a form on your website.
Yeah.
When they do fill in a form on your website that goes into a database. And from there you can then, for example, send out emails. Yep. And you can look at the data about those people in the customer relationship management system and start building up a picture of what that customer really needs, how you're best going to, how you're going to best serve that customer, etc..
Well, this is, I think, one of the most interesting things about it, isn't it? Because, you know, I guess traditionally somebody would fill in a form and you'd log their data in a database or something like that, that, you know, you're kind of holding separately. And then you'd all have to kind of log into this database or share the information from it and hope that everyone kind of stays up to speed. And then you're not even really gathering that much useful insight, except that they filled in a form. And I think one of the things that's really interesting about HubSpot is you can see, you know, somebody filled in a form to download an ebook or a white paper or whatever. And then they went to this page, and then they went to that page, and then they signed up for this. And you can kind of start to build a picture of what people actually want and need from your website that I don't think many other platforms really give you that kind of insight. Really.
That's true. So talking about the email side of things, if you've ever used, for example, MailChimp, which I noticed their advertising on the telly, now.
They're quite.
Funky adverts. If you've ever used MailChimp, then the emailing side of HubSpot does that. Yeah.
Very familiar.
Emails. Send them out, see who's clicked them, open them, etc. with the caveat that that's all changing quite rapidly. So that Apple, for example, and I'm sure Microsoft will be close behind, are now not allowing tracking to take place, or at least they're giving you the option to not be tracked, which is a sad day for marketers. But yeah, um, so, you know, bear that in mind, but it still gives you a fantastic tool. Then staying with the marketing platform, a term which maybe people have heard and they're not sure what it means is marketing automation a buzzword? It is a bit of a buzzword, yeah. Do you want to talk about that or do you want me to talk about it?
Marketing automation is when you get robots to do it.
It's when you automate your marketing. Yeah. Right. Let's move on. That's it. Nailed it.
It's, uh. So I guess the idea is that to save you time and energy, it's about giving kind of computerised systems as much leeway to do your marketing for you as possible.
Yeah. Mostly effectively, it's, it's, it allows you to set up a campaign where you maybe have a landing page or a web page that's trying to attract enquiries from people. So you're getting people on a web page. If they fill in a form, then you, your campaign, your marketing automation might, for example, wait two days, then send them another pre-prepared email. Yep. And then see what they do. And if they respond to it, if they click it, if they do something, send them another email. If they don't, then maybe do something else. send them a different email. So it's a, it's a way of automatically nurturing people. And at any point, I hasten to add, those people can opt out. They can say, stop sending me emails. For example.
There's, um, automation built into the chat bots in HubSpot as well, isn't there? I think you can set them up so that they'll kind of when, when people click the chat and, and type a question, it can automatically reply or direct queries to specific people, that sort of thing. So yeah, I mean, it's just about like you say, saving people time and, and energy really, isn't it?
Yeah, one hundred percent. And then I'm not sure if we've covered everything we need to cover on the marketing automation and sorry, the marketing side of things. I mean, that's the thing that we first bought. Yeah, was marketing the marketing suite back in twenty fifteen. Probably the bit.
We use most as well, isn't it?
It is the bit we use most. Now we probably should use the CRM more. Yeah. And we certainly oh Julie's shouting something across. Go on tell me social media. Oh right.
You can hum-
Um oh Julie's coming in. We've never done this before. Oh wait a minute. What's going on?
I'm stealing Alex's mic. You can schedule all your social media from within HubSpot. So you press a button, you say you want to do a tweet, and then you can select the blog post that you've written within HubSpot, and it pulls it directly into your tweet, and then you can do it. Do the same for LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook. So it's really, really quick and it's much easier than sort of setting up a tweet and then going and finding the link and then, you know, pasting it in. It just all works.
Okay. We got some of that, but you didn't get very close to the microphone.
You can tell that we don't do social media posting enough.
Yeah, no, that's.
Julie's.
Wheelhouse. That makes a lot of sense. Thank you. Julie, thank you for jumping in. Um, Julie was able to do that because we do this, um, this podcast from the office, from the coalface, from the room where or one of the rooms, one of the offices where there's actual digital marketing happening, which is why Julie was able to just move away from a computer and grab Alex's mic. Right? So the marketing suite. Yeah, pretty much happy with that. You know, in its simplest form, it's a tool you can use instead of WordPress, etc., um, for managing your website content, but it's way cleverer than that. And it's integrated with the customer relationship management or CRM system. Now CRM is.
A.
Is an acronym that, that either makes people shudder or makes people smile. Because if you use a CRM effectively, it really can help massively with your marketing effort with getting you not only getting more value from your existing customers, which is often where the quickest wins can be made. If you're trying to increase revenue, your existing customers, people who already like you, people are already using your services. They are often a great opportunity for increasing revenue. I think we're, you know, we're certainly guilty of not doing that enough. I think we kind of don't pester people. We kind of like, you know, we, we, we need to do more of it and avoid those. Hey, I didn't realise you guys did that type.
Of.
Conversation, which.
We, which.
We do still have from time to time, but a customer relationship management system gives the whole business one view of a customer. Yep. Both a business and the people within that business.
Yes.
Yeah. And that's a benefit because.
Well, it's simplicity again, isn't it really? It's, it's not having to track people through multiple databases. It's being able to log into one platform and say, these are the people that contacted us last week, and this is how many times we've contacted them, and this is how many emails it took for us to finally kind of get them on the phone and have a conversation. It lets you see all of that stuff at a glance with very little effort involved. Yeah. And it's also really useful when you are like me and forget to contact people and like many of our clients, to be fair as well, right? People get leads all the time that they kind of fail to follow up on and having kind of one centralised location that you can kind of log in to see who you have and haven't contacted. It's just a little prompt really, isn't it? It says, you know, this person emailed me three days ago and I haven't got back to them yet, so I'll do that now.
That's right. Yeah. And if you use, um, one of the tools that I think comes with marketing Pro, although it certainly comes with the CRM as well, I'm pretty sure it does. Um, you can create lists. Now what that is, is a like customer segmentation. So you can make sure that your customer communications, um, emails, maybe that you're sending out are going to the right people so that you're not sending existing customers. Um, an email that sounds like you haven't got a relationship with them. And this happened to me not, you know, fairly recently. And for that reason and that reason alone, I decided I didn't want to work with, I can't remember what I'd got on to a mailing list of some organisations. I was kind of thinking, yeah, I want to do business with these people. Oh that's right. It was the video people we got contacted by a video company and they look pretty cool. Now we've got Leslie in house, uh, doing video, but, you know, it's worth a conversation with these guys. They were a team of people, maybe some of the bigger productions that we might have, we might have worked with them. So they reached out, um, using some form of marketing automation. You know, they might use HubSpot. Other ones include things like Salesforce Pardoll. Um, yeah, there's loads of them. And we particularly like HubSpot and they reached out and I arranged to meet the guy on a Zoom chat. And then the following day, or a couple of days later, I got an email from them, which was like, hey, you know, be lovely to speak to you. We think we could work with you. We worked really well with agencies like, and I was like, yeah, I was like, wait a minute, guys. I've already arranged. Oh, and that's the other thing. The guy didn't even rock up for the meeting, which made it even worse. So, I mean, they completely screwed up. And, you know, he did put his hand up and say, look, I realise I've screwed up here, but too late.
By.
Email that spoke to me like I was a stranger after I'd had an actual conversation with them and arranged a meeting with them. Just made me think, nah, I'm not going to do business with them.
Well, I think it's an interesting point because, you know, you said at the beginning that nowadays or, you know, I guess forever you can do all of this stuff without any kind of automation, without any help, without a platform like HubSpot. But I think nowadays people are much less kind of forgiving of mistakes like that. There's a need to be much more intelligent with your marketing. You have to kind of hit those notes straight away and not accidentally send people the wrong email or forget to email them for three days or any of that stuff.
So yeah, that's right.
Yeah. It's possible to do all of this stuff without HubSpot, for sure. I think it is quite difficult to get it right though.
Yeah. I mean, some of the free open source tools like WordPress, Joomla, etc. they do have plugins which claim to be marketing automation. They kind of claim to do everything that HubSpot does, and that's fine. And they might do it somewhat effectively.
Yeah.
Um, but, um, I, I just, I just find, you know, we're not a huge agency and HubSpot isn't cheap. And we'll talk about that in a minute, but it absolutely works.
Yeah, it.
Just helps and makes life simpler.
You never have to worry about stuff, not firing automated emails off or people not being added to your database, or you just trust it to work, don't you?
You do.
Yeah. At the end of the day, if it doesn't, there's always going to be a HubSpot rep or somebody you can talk to and be like, you know, what's going on. Whereas I guess with a lot of the kind of extensions you're talking about, you are kind of on your own really?
Yeah, for sure. I mean, I would say it's lovely software to use. It's a, it's a lovely interface. It's user friendly. Very rarely have we seen it trip up. It's not infallible. It's software for goodness sake. But you know, it nearly always works and nearly always works really well. Um, so we're not going to go in today. We're not going to go into some of the other aspects such as the service portal, which lets you, it's a bit like, um, Zendesk, that kind of thing.
It's ticketing.
Yeah. And then the operations side of the HubSpot, which is the most recent addition to the HubSpot suite, I think, which is, you know, it allows you to sort of hook up all of your other systems. So that, again, you've got like one version of the truth. It doesn't necessarily bring all that data into HubSpot. What it does is it connects it. So the HubSpot CRM might, for example, talk to your ERP system. I don't know why you would want to do that, but you might.
I was just gonna say, actually, one thing it might be worth covering briefly is the whole HubSpot integrations thing, though, because I do think that's quite an interesting thing that people don't know about. Like, for example, with Google ads, there's a native HubSpot integrations that you can just pull all your ads data straight into HubSpot. So you don't have to measure or track anything by logging into Google ads anymore. You can just do it from inside HubSpot. And I think that's quite an interesting thing that, you know, it's a small thing, but it does save you a lot of time and effort.
Are you suggesting that Google's reporting tools can sometimes be complex and confusing?
I'm suggesting that logging into AdWords is a bit of a nightmare sometimes.
Yeah. That's right. So pulling all that data into HubSpot means that your single sign on into HubSpot is letting you manage your Google Ads campaign.
Yeah, absolutely. And also, I guess it goes a step further too, because you can see what Google ads people have clicked before they converted on one of your forms in HubSpot, which Google ads natively doesn't let you do. So a lot of the time with Google Ads, you're kind of guessing, you know, I sent one hundred people to this page and I got two sign ups. So I'm assuming that two of those signups came from Google AdWords. Whereas when you've integrated everything with HubSpot, it tells you literally specifically, you know, two people clicked on this ad and then filled in the form. So it takes the guesswork out of it, I guess.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. One other that springs to mind talking about integrations that we use is we have got the HubSpot bot, the, the CRM chatbot on. It's not actually a bot, it's just a chat tool. We're not using the bot. We could do, but we're not, um, using the chat tool. So people can just start a live chat with us. And because we also use Slack. Yep. Um, what happens is if somebody jumps on that live chat tool, it pops up in Slack and we can answer them in Slack. We don't have to go anywhere else. We can cause slack. We have open all the time for, you know, communications within the organisation. So it's, it kind of makes perfect sense that we've got that, that slack integration. Yeah. And it means it just makes life easier. So yeah, there's two examples there. Any other that spring to mind or.
Just there's probably hundreds. There are there's a.
Whole section of Hubspot's website where it talks about the, the, uh, the various integrations. Um, and there are lots of them. It'll, it integrates with, with, and pretty much even if it doesn't, there's a, a bit like, um, I forget the name of it just now. Zapier. Thank you. Julie. There's Zapier tool, which you can use to hook up to other other things as well. So I think we've maybe said enough about about what it.
Is wildly off topic.
We love it. No, no, it's great. And we really like HubSpot. We use it. We've been using it since twenty fifteen. Um, one thing that people often say is it's not cheap. Well, compared to WordPress, it's not cheap because WordPress is free.
It's not free.
It's definitely not free. Having said that, having said that, they do have entry level versions of pretty much all of their platforms. Like the CRM has a free option, unlimited contacts, free forever, no catches. And that is a if you look, if you're thinking about a CRM, do not bypass the HubSpot free CRM because it will do probably exactly what you need your CRM to do.
Yeah, absolutely. I think that's the key thing, isn't it? It is expensive on paper. If you look at the prices of, you know, kind of buying all of the different bits of it and adding them all together. And I guess that's another thing that's probably worth talking about, right? I found it quite confusing to start with how HubSpot is sold in kind of chunks. It's an ecosystem, but you buy kind of sections of it. Um, and that's quite confusing. And then when you sit and add the price of a monthly sales subscription and a marketing hub subscription and all of that together, it looks eye watering, but a lot of it a, like Dave says, you can kind of jump in and get your feet wet with a free version or a reduced cost version. Um, and then when you do kind of add them all together. Well, it's not, it's not, it's not as expensive as they say all the time is it?
Yeah. I mean, you know, we've been using it for a long time. Uh, we pay, I think, five or six hundred quid a month for the marketing suite. Um, something like that. Certainly if you want, say, the marketing suite, the sales pro and, uh, what else might you want? Well, yeah, basically.
Those are the main ones. I think if you get.
Those two and you want to be able to hold maybe three, four, five thousand contacts, something like that, then you could certainly be, you know, you're starting to nudge towards a thousand quid a month in order in order to have everything that you need. Um, and I know that sounds like a lot of money, but.
I'm not sure that it does.
Really well. I mean, we're only a small business. It doesn't feel like a lot of money to us. It only feels like a lot of money if you don't value your website. You you don't really believe in the web as a as a lead gen business growth tool. If you do, it starts to pale into insignificance compared to the productivity gains that you can get from it, in my opinion.
And then I guess there's the fact that it's doing what lots of other tools that you're probably already paying for do. I mean, you mentioned MailChimp earlier. Um, email software's not cheap. Um, something like Hootsuite that lets you organise all your social media posts and that kind of thing. They're not cheap and it's got all of that functionality kind of baked into it. So I think if you actually kind of split up what you were getting on a per platform basis, it would be a pretty good bargain really.
Yeah, I think so. Yeah. So I mean, the pricing is there for all to see on the HubSpot site. I would say that you can usually negotiate somewhat with them. The price you see on the website needn't necessarily be the price that you pay. Um, like, like with anything, it's, it's always worth saying, look, I'm interested in this, but I'm, we're kind of struggling a little bit with that level of investment. And, you know, if they can help, they will even if it's only, you know, on a, on a sort of maybe an introductory, um, offer that they might, might provide, especially if you're, you know, not one hundred percent. Sure. My view is it would be unusual for you to start using HubSpot and then decide, actually, this is no good. We're not going to use it anymore.
I'm trying to think if that's ever happened. I'm trying to think of any clients.
It will have happened. It hasn't happened to us. We've certainly found people who've been paying for it, and it's been gathering dust and they haven't been using it. Yes. And they've needed some help. You know, for example, with the CRM, they've needed some help sort of getting bringing it back to life and getting value from it. That's not unusual, but that's, that's the same as any software really.
And I do think, again, the kind of massive popularity of HubSpot is a real pro there as well, because if you do find yourself struggling to use it, you're not sure whether you've got it implemented correctly. There are lots of people out there who can help you with it. It's not a case of, you know, you're on your own with some kind of weird bespoke software that only one agency can help you with. It's a very kind of universally used product.
It is. Yeah. There's, there's, there's a huge network of agencies who support HubSpot. Um, and yeah, that's it. I think we, I think just to sum up, um, it's, it's a great tool if you believe that you can generate business and grow your business using, uh, you know, Using the website, email, etc.. Um, we have been using it for a long time and we love it. And if you really don't want to spend the money, yes, you can achieve pretty much everything HubSpot does without buying HubSpot. Um, but surely you want your life to be simpler than that.
Just give it a go. You're not gonna regret it.
I couldn't agree more. Yeah, that's my view of it. I mean, we did, you know, we, we, we wrestled with it because it was a it was a few years ago. And, you know, yeah, money was tight. But we just thought this is actually, you know, this is this, this is going to help us grow our business. And we have grown significantly since we took it on. I'm not saying it was entirely down to HubSpot, because it wasn't because one thing that HubSpot commission. Yeah, one.
Thing.
Even HubSpot will make it absolutely clear that this is a tool for the marketing team to use, whether that's a team you've got in-house or you and your partner agency. It's not, it doesn't like allow you to press a button and everything starts working and all and the contents produced and the search results start appearing and you start getting the enquiries. It's a tool.
Yeah.
If you don't use it, it's just the same as anything. If you don't use it, if you don't go to the gym, you won't get fit. You know, if you don't use HubSpot, it will not do all the things that HubSpot is capable of doing, but it makes doing all that stuff more enjoyable and more effective.
Yeah, I think that's probably, I would say the biggest problem we encounter with people using HubSpot isn't it, is that, you know, they've kind of got it and they think it's gonna instantly transform their marketing overnight. I think there is work to be done getting to grips with it, learning to use it properly. And of course, you've still got to go in and kind of create all the content yourself and do all that work. But it does make things a lot simpler.
Yeah, yeah. It's just like part of the human condition, isn't it, that we think that there might be a simple solution. Um, yeah, we often say that digital marketing is not necessarily hard as in rocket science, but it's certainly hard work and a tool that can make it make that hard work more enjoyable and and get more from the time you spend, then that's got to be a good thing.
I think so.
Yeah, absolutely. Okay. That's good. We'll wrap this one up. Um, can't think of anything else just now. If you've got any questions you want answering, then ask us a question. If you want to come on the show and talk about why you think hubspot's awful and why you think something else is much better, then by all means, drop us a line. We'd love to hear from you. You can come on the show. Um, no. No. Absolutely no. People could absolutely come on here and tell us why they hate HubSpot if they want to, because we're all about trying to help people make decisions and do their digital marketing more effective. And, and different points of view are always interesting. Are they not? I think so. Yes they are. Okay. Can't think of anything else to say. So we'll sign off just now. It's, uh.
From me and goodbye from me.