There is an understandable suspicion, if you like, a certain fear of working with an agency. Certainly for companies that are maybe starting to address their marketing needs for the first time in a serious way, without even meaning to. I think there is a certain amount of distrust and suspicion if they've been through a process and it hasn't gone well. There's suspicion. If they've never been through it, there's suspicion. And again, the discovery session helps to reassure, I suppose. Deciding who to work with maybe should come down to the more human level your agency. Treat them like the employee that you really would love to hire. Yeah, but I think it's important to stress that you're not talking about hiring an employee. I mean, imagine you were hiring a leader of staff. Yes. So welcome to the Digital Marketing From The Coalface podcast. I'm currently sat in the motorhome. The motorhome. Yeah. I was thinking that as I said it. Yeah.
I was waiting for you to say that.
The motorhome. All right. Our motorhome down on the south coast. We're just outside Falmouth. We should be overlooking Goonhilly Downs, but, um, we can't actually see Goonhilly Downs because it's currently pouring with rain. But when you come to holiday in Cornwall, you you kind of expect there to be a bit of rain and we expect weather. You expect weather. We've had some weather. It hasn't been awful, but we've had some weather anyway because we're having a sort of chilled out day and because I like doing podcasts. Um, before we crack open the first can of cider, or maybe we should have actually opened the can of cider and done the podcast a little bit. Squiffy. But anyway, um, before we open a can of cider and chill out, I just thought I'd do a podcast about, well, partly what actually is a digital agency and partly how do you find the right agency. Now, I'd started making some notes about this podcast before deciding to record this tonight and, and then had a conversation today with a person, well, a business, a person at an organisation, they used to be customers of ours used to be clients probably about four years ago. Yeah. And the engagement went okay, but they were at a very early stage. They were going through a lot of change. The business, the main principle in the business, um, by her own admission, was not probably in the right place to work with an agency. Um, but it's interesting. She'd been on a bit of a journey over the last four years and was speaking to another agency and then thought, why don't I go back to the guys at Red evolution? Because now my business has moved on and I'm in a much more. I'm in a much stronger place, both as a business and as a business person, etc.. She thought it would be worth having a conversation. So we had a really good conversation, which may well result in in them becoming customers again. Who knows? Um, but that kind of also that conversation fed into this general idea of how do you find the right agency and fundamentally what is a digital agency? You know, what, what do they actually do? Um, and I suppose how do you sort the wheat from the chaff? And there's a whole list of things. So I thought as soon as we were here and we were chilling out, that would be a subject that, That we might discuss. And there's no right or wrong answer to this. But, I mean, you know, as an owner of Red evolution, Karen, I should say that it's Karen and I, Dave and Karen are recording this one as an owner of Red evolution. What do you think a digital agency is? What do you think about us? What do you think we actually do?
I sometimes think we're just a pack of people who know a lot of stuff about a lot of stuff to do with marketing, to do with digital marketing, to do with web, to do with applications. We all got together. It's almost like we did it as a sort of a, well, an evolution, if you like.
You mean like, almost like by accident?
Well, no. But of like minded people who got together and sort of this, this thing sort of emerged from that getting together. And it's very, it's a very sort of tightly welded group of people who kind of get what each others does, respects what each other does, and what what each other brings to the party. And between us, we create this. It's almost like it's like one single person who can do everything, almost like a super superhero type.
Yeah. I mean, when customers buy into an agency, whether it's us or any agency.
I'm not saying that because I think that's what people think they might get with an agency, because I don't think they do. But I think that's that's how I feel about us as a team.
At the most basic level, an agency or agencies are businesses just just like the businesses that they work with, the businesses that they try and help. They are businesses they both want to and need to make money. Um, There too. Just like the businesses they help are trying to grow. They're trying to be better. They're trying to make a difference. They're trying to have a life. They're trying to develop into maybe something that one day somebody else will buy, or all of the things that the businesses that digital marketing agencies help, the digital marketing agency themselves are also that thing. They're also a business that wants to, to make a difference in the world and, and grow and prosper.
I think that's a really good point because it was when we started looking at our strategy, how we, you know, how we put a strategy together for ourselves. I'm not talking about a marketing strategy. I'm talking about the business. When we went through that process quite, quite some years ago now. Mhm. That was when the penny dropped that we were just like our clients. We had the same issues. We had the same things to deal with. We wanted to build a team. We wanted to have great employees. We wanted to be good employers. We wanted all the same things for our business that we were trying to deliver to the people who came to us for help.
Yeah, what I'm saying is, and I think you're saying the same thing, is that. Digital agencies, I mean, this is not exactly, you know, earth shattering surprise, surprise. But I think it's possible that people see digital agencies as and potentially quite rightly so. I'm not sure they see digital agencies as an organisation that can help them achieve their goals, grow their businesses and, and move on and onwards and upwards and do great things. I mean, some of the oil industry clients that we work with are a good example of that. They're often, you know, they're attracting huge venture capital. They're, you know, and we're talking thousands or tens of thousands. They're talking millions or tens of millions Um, you know, they are, they are businesses that are kind of big and, and very serious looking, etc. but when you distill it down, there are a bunch of people who are trying to be very good at something in exactly the same way as the digital marketing agency. And why is this important? If we're talking about how to find the right agency, I think if you take it down to the human level and recognise that the digital agency are just like you, because we spend a lot of time, uh, doing all the things we do for our customers, we spend a lot of time doing that for ourselves. And maybe that's where we're kind of different to other businesses. If you take a business that do a wellbore cleanup, for example, they don't do wellbore cleanup for themselves and for other people. They just do it for other people. You know, they do it for people that own assets, oil assets, you know, wells and things. That's a.
Very.
Good point. Well, I don't know what point I'm making, but there is a difference because we we almost have that, you know, physician heal thyself kind of situation, don't we? We have a situation where we have to do what we do for others, for ourselves as well. But that's not really the point I'm making. I think the point I'm driving at, you know, about how to find the right agency. I think if you set out by appreciating that the agency are a group of well-meaning, right thinking, qualified, educated, capable people making their way in the world and the way that they make their way in the world is by helping you and your organisation make your way in the world. And then you start then maybe to potentially get into, into a better place, a better situation. I mean, this is all a bit sort of tin pot philosophy, I suppose, but. Well, what do you see what I'm driving at?
Well, I think you were saying you you asked the question, how do you find the right agency? And you're saying you need to understand that an agency has this, you know, a you know, a digital marketing agency is doing the same thing for their business that you should be or want to be doing for your business, making your way and doing all these great things. But that's not how you find the right agency. Perhaps if you flip that over and say, if you think about your agency or consider that your agency should be doing those things for themselves and behaving in the way, in that same way, then maybe you're a good match because the agency you're working with will be treating you as tenderly and as carefully and as as warmly, if you like, as they treat themselves. So perhaps the first step is to look at the agency in the round and ask questions. What are they? What? What do they do? How do they treat their stuff? What does their employee, um, sort of turnover look like? How do they treat people? How do they come across when they're talking to you? Look at look at their blogs, look at their listen to their podcasts. Find out who they are as people. And maybe that if that marries with something that you're looking for, for your company, and that's the kind of people that you'd like to work with, well, that's one of the things you might want to look at other than just what you were just saying earlier, David, which was, uh, I want you to do this thing for me. And in six months time, I'll have, um, you know, I don't know how many leads I get now, but I'll have fifty leads a month by the time you finish with me. And it's, you know, sayonara, goodbye. And thank you very much.
When it comes to what digital agencies actually do, then. Then most good agencies. Yeah. And we might try and get on to how you sort the wheat from the chaff and find the good agencies. But most good agencies, especially full service agencies, and where where a small but perfectly formed full service agency. They all do all the stuff you would expect like they. They can design and build fantastic websites. They can create lead generation campaigns, they can do search engine optimisation, they can run paid search campaigns, they can manage social media. They can all the whole range of stuff. So it if you're satisfied and there's this, and the social proof is out there that the agency can do what you need them to do, then you've still got this pool of agencies that you could pick from. Yes. Um, so deciding who to work with maybe should come down to the more human level. Maybe. I mean, it's one of the reasons that the way we operate with potential customers, and even as is the case with the conversation today, because we've now gone ahead and booked a discovery session, or in that case, I suppose it would be a rediscovery session because we have previously worked with this organisation, but we're really keen and our process insists that we do a discovery session. Most potential customers get it, some don't. Um, the the discovery session, I think plays into the heart of what we're talking about just now. I mean, we are going to investigate the business. We're going to look at their markets, what they're currently doing. We're going to look at as much data on their data Google Search Console, etc.. We're going to look as much. We're going to gather as much information as we can. But importantly, it's an opportunity and in our case, a free of charge opportunity. This sounds like a sales pitch. It's not meant to be. What I'm saying is we do a probe on a piece of work called discovery before we start a proper engagement, a full on engagement with the organisation to establish that we can help them and that with the right people to help them. And when I say the right people, I mean that. I mean, are we the right people to help them? Is there a chemistry? Is there a synergy? I'm sounding like I'm playing.
Is it trust?
Corporate. Bingo.
No. You know, it establishes an amount of trust. Yeah. Um, because we are talking people. But also, when, you know, we're standing in the room and we're going back and forth and we're looking at the data, we're showing people things that perhaps they've never seen before. It's, it's building that, that, uh, sort of back and forth. The question asking the. The comfort level goes up. Everybody starts asking questions, you know, doesn't matter what you ask. It's not a stupid question. It if it develops and it always, almost always does, I say ninety five percent of the time it develops very, very sort of warm and relaxed and questioning and answering kind of atmosphere where everybody feels like they're getting something. And we do discovery for the same reason we we do it so we can show people that we care about their business right at the outset, whether whether they decide to work with us or not. But also it means that we can gauge whether the people that we are destined to be working with are the right kind of people to work with, for us to fit with, with us. That's not to sound like, oh, we're special. I just meant, you know, it just that the, the chemistry is right to put it in a sort of like slightly.
Yeah, it's not in any sort of elitist sense.
No, no, it's just.
It's interesting because, um, you know, we've watched some, um, some programs on Netflix and Amazon, Amazon Prime, uh, and they're sort of, what do you call them procedural legal type things, uh, the Lincoln Lawyer, which is if anyone's listening, they haven't watched it. The Lincoln Lawyer, it's very good. It's based on the Michael Connelly books. Um, and they talk a lot in the law in the, in the courtroom situations. They talk about discovery. Oh, that wasn't, that wasn't, um, you know, that wasn't presented in during discovery. Why wasn't that shown in discovery? So the legal profession, certainly in America, I don't know if it's they call it the same over here, but they go through that whole discovery phase to try and find as much information as possible.
And they have to share that.
And they have to share it. That's right. And I guess that's, you know, a similar thing, um, when it comes to trying to figure out how to find the right digital agency, digital marketing agency for you, going back to the, how to, how to find the right agency, um, stroke, what is a digital marketing agency? I said before that we might talk about how to sort the wheat from the chaff. I think that is a really difficult thing for customers to do, for clients to do. But I think what we do, and again, this isn't a sales pitch, but I think what we do with discovery, it takes the pain out of that process. It allows you to spend some time with a potential partner, carry out a whole range of discovery related activities, um, both looking at data and establishing relationships, etc.. And I think broadly speaking, what I would say to people is if the agency that you're considering isn't offering that kind of approach where you work collaboratively with the agency, and I'm not talking over weeks, I'm talking about like a two, three, four hour discovery session an afternoon. Yeah. That's right. You know, if you work with them, if they're not prepared to do that, then that might be a red flag. That might be a that might be a sign. Because if they're not interested in finding out more about your business, um, which you can, you know, getting the sort of information you can only really get during discovery because Julie and I, when we do discoveries, we often joke with customers or potential customers, as they often are at that point, that we have an agenda. But it's normal for the agenda to wander off. And generally these sessions start. They're a bit stilted. It kind of feels ten minutes in like, crikey, you know, we're only going to need forty minutes, we're going to be done. And then three hours, four hours later, you're kind of looking at your watch saying, right, well, we need to wrap this up. And it's like, but where did the last three hours go? They almost always follow that, that, that same pattern. But if if you are looking to find the right agency, then that approach I think works well. I guess one of the challenges for people would be, well, well, what do you want me to do? Do you want me to do like discovery sessions with three or four agencies or five or six agencies? Well, no, because going down the quantity route, you know, getting proposals from five or six agencies, it's it's it's exhausting. Don't do it. Narrow it down. Have some. Have a, you know, have a half hour meeting or an hour meeting. Have a chat, get a feel for them. And then very quickly, you should be able to say actually kind of like what these guys are saying, kind of like the way that they're talking. It sounds like there might be a good partner for us, then maybe do the discovery with them, and that will either seal the deal or you'll actually both agree at the end of discovery. It doesn't sound like we're the right people to help.
I think, uh, apart from the people aspect, the discovery session also, you were saying, how do you sort the wheat from the chaff that it kind of gives a potential client a, a window into our world, you know, what kind of things do we look at when we're trying to figure out what we're going to do first, or what we're going to do next, or what we're going to do for the next twelve months, and how are we going to prioritise that? Because the discovery session often unearths some Fundamental issues or challenges that the client might say or potential client says. We didn't know that. That's something we want to look at. That's something we want to do now. Can we do it now? Can we do it now? Can we start with that? And then we maybe look at some other stuff. And we, we, we kind of establish a pattern of um, or a program, if you like a loose program of priorities right at the outset. So, you know, we're not saying, you know, we'll do discovery and then we'll go away and sort of chew on it for two months and figure out what we're going to do. And then we'll come back to you and tell you discovery is a very it's a it's a real undiluted three hours of figuring out what we can do straight away and then how we're going to work that through the program for the next twelve months or two years or however long. You know, we start working with, we, we end up working with clients because sometimes it's years, isn't it?
So what the discovery also does is it is it lets you start to think about during the discovery, you start to develop a strategy and you start to think about the deliverables that are going to be required, the outputs that are going to be required. And that's not to say that during discovery, you just start talking about tactics because talking about tactics and by tactics we mean blogging, pay per click, search engine optimisation, whatever tactic, you know, you've got to have a strategy first. But by developing, by running that, that discovery session, you have that chance to, to, to really dig deep and then start to think, I mean, during the discovery, for example, you might agree as a group that, yeah, you know, our website really is rubbish. I mean, it's, we had that with a customer and it was a brand new website. And during the discovery, We kind of came to the conclusion, and it was almost like they came to the conclusion that the blood, sweat and tears they put in to developing this new website was wasted. It was not the website they needed. Yeah, it was, it was, it was built as a design exercise rather than a business development exercise rather than a business growth exercise rather than a lead generation exercise. So, you know, that's painful for customers who've been through that process. But what you'll often do during discovery is, is recognise so that you're not, then, you know, if you flip that around and say, well, don't do discovery. Leave it all to the agency, the agency, look at everything. Then they come back to you and say, right, well, we think you need a new website, you need this, you need that, you need the other. Well, we've just we've just rebuilt our website. That's out of the question. But by working through a discovery session, uh, in your, um, in your, um, mission, if you like to, to find, or I might actually call this podcast how to discover the right agency. You see what I did there? Um, in order to get to the point where you're, you know, by going through. I'm losing my plot, losing the plot here by going through discovery. You agree? As a team, as a group, as a collaborative exercise, the things that you're going to need to look at the stuff that ain't going to cut it, whether that's the brand, the messaging, the website, the any aspect of, uh, of the marketing.
Well, in discovery, you're looking at evidence and you're explaining to people who may not understand what they're seeing. I mean, some, some discoveries you'll, you'll tell me if I'm wrong. The client's never even looked at Google Search Console for their website. They, they, they haven't looked at it. And they haven't certainly haven't drawn any conclusions from what they're seeing in there. And we can help them see what's in there, what the truth behind Google Search Console is because Google Search Console is the truth about your website and how it's behaving in search.
Which is only one aspect of a digital marketing strategy.
Yeah, but I've picked that because it's, it's something that, you know, we see often.
It certainly can give some really interesting and very, very useful insights, that's for sure.
But you arrive at conclusions together is what I'm you know what I'm saying? It's not like you say, you know, just leave it to the agency. They'll tell you what they're doing if they can be bothered. But, you know, in each month they'll send you a, send you an invoice and say, we did that. We did that stuff.
Well, that actually leads on nicely because I was, I was thinking that I think when people are trying to find an agency to work with, amongst other things, there's, um, there's a suspicion, um, some aspects of what we do seem to be, appear to be somewhat of a black art, something of a black art. Even now, even now. Yeah. Um, I think that's quite common. And it isn't a black art. I mean, it's normal on a black art than any other profession and doing what they do. I mean, I kind of think accounting's a accounting's a bit of a black art in some respects.
But but we think like that because we don't understand it sometimes.
Yeah. That's right. Certain aspects of it for sure. But again, by going through a discovery phase of work, um, the suspicion goes away because during discovery the agency will be helping their potential customer to really understand what it's going to take to move the dial to get them from A to B, to get them from where they are now to where they need to be. And that will help to remove the suspicion because I, I think it's at the heart of, oh, hold on, what's going on?
Oh well.
Oh well, there's an owl on the fence just outside. Oh Or as an owl on one post and a magpie on another. It's strange to see an owl out and it. Maybe the rain stopped. Oh, there's it flying off now. It's a barn owl, I think. Isn't it the magpies chasing it. It's just gone right past the window. It's special.
Golden.
Sorry about the the owl interlude there. Um. Oh, that was special. Yeah, that's my fault.
I have to.
one of the joys of, uh, of mortar homing.
If I hadn't pointed it out to you.
No, you were right to point out the interlude. That was a joy. That was a joy. I don't really I don't really care.
About five metres away.
I don't really care about digital marketing anymore. I just want to see if the owl comes back, right.
Back on.
Track. Yeah. So what we were saying is that there is, um, there is an understandable suspicion, if you like, a certain fear of, of working with an agency. Certainly for companies that are maybe starting to address their marketing needs for the first time in a serious way. Yes. You know, they've been talked into running adverts in magazines or newspapers, and they might have flirted with a paid search campaign because they once had somebody working at the organisation who had a half, half an idea about how that works. But when an agency, sorry, when a, when a, when a business looks at themselves and says, we need to start looking at this and doing it properly and we need help to do that, where do they start? And I think without even meaning to, I think there is a there is a certain amount of distrust and suspicion. It's even worse, actually, if um, they've had a previously bad experience with one of the, unfortunately many um, ropey agencies or I use the word loosely when I say agencies, but there's a lot of organisations out there who are a bit rubbish at this stuff and, and pretend to know what they're doing and genuinely don't. We've, we've unpicked the rat's nest that other people have created and fixed it and put it right and done that. So. So if they've been through a process and it hasn't gone well, there's suspicion. If they've never been through it, there's suspicion. And again, the discovery session um helps to helps to reassure I suppose.
Yeah. I mean, do people I'm asking this as sort of devil's advocate here, but we've talked about the discovery session. I mean, like you said, you can't do a discovery session with five agencies. I mean, what's the what's the step before that? I mean, do you literally just look at five agencies websites and think, we'll have a bit, we'll try them and them. And then and then because that's we feel sometimes that that's exactly why we why we were asked at least to go and have a conversation because people did a Google search, they found a few agencies, they phoned them or sent them an email, usually the same email, sometimes forgetting to change names and then, you know, the process starts there.
Well, often what they're doing is they're going through the process. They're going through a series of events that we have orchestrated by spending time to understand who our ideal customers are, what problems they've got, what they're searching for, when they're looking for solutions and they find us.
And great point.
It. Yeah, it what it, what it means is that they, they often will say to us, for example, you know, well, we did a search and we found you. So we guess that, you know, we figured that you, you maybe know what you're talking about because that's how we found you. But what they're doing is they're going through the process that you want their ideal customers to go through to find them. So it's a great it's a great way of illustrating that, you know, by, well, how did you find us and unpicking it? But if you look at our, um, list of clients. Then we've got clients that were referred to us. We've got clients who found us Stone cold founders in Google Search, and for the most part, organic search. And some of those paid search that I can think of off the top of my head. So most businesses, you know, they're going to be they're going to be going to their network and saying, who do you use for a digital agency? Which is fine. And if you get a good referral, that's got to be a good thing. But yeah, definitely coming in from, from a, from a Google search is another one. Um, and so when they actually decide to fill the form in on your website or pick the phone up or send you an email, even that I recognise even that's a big step. And so, you know, I guess at that stage people are thinking, well, what's going to happen as a result of this? You know, I mean, some people might even be thinking, well, you know, are they going to charge me straight away just to talk to me about my business? You know, there's a, there is a, we do have an issue in our industry, I think, because, you know, some people might operate that way, but, um, I don't know. I think the right agency is, is an agency who, you know, they can do the stuff you want them to do. They've either got a track record or they've clearly got really good knowledge or someone has told you, oh yeah, go and speak to read evolution. They've worked with us for years, they're a great bunch of guys and etc. but essentially what you're looking for, which is why again, to bang the discovery drum, it's so important is what you're really looking for is a team of people who you can work with to help you solve the big marketing challenges that you've got as a, as a business. You know, if your website's no good, it's not generating leads, it's not getting found in search. You're in an intensely competitive market or you used to be a market leader and now you're being left behind because new players have come into the marketplace and you know, they're the ones dominating search, etc., You know, what you're really looking for in a digital marketing agency is an agency who can sit down with you and help you solve those problems. Because I think it's worth pointing out that digital marketing agencies like us and other good agencies, they've they've got a huge, you know, a fantastic range of skills, highly developed skills, what you need from them, they've done for lots of other businesses, sometimes hundreds of other businesses, but they haven't got the answers for you. You know, as Phil, Phil would say, um, you know, who does a lot of development work with us? Um, he's a fantastic coder, but nine times out of ten when he's building an app or a web app for, you know, with us, for one of our customers, he's got the coding skills, but he's never done what they need. He's never created the solution they need before.
Because it's so particular and so specific.
To.
Them. Yeah.
That's right.
I think that comes that also comes back to the fact that we are. We have such a broad reach in such a wide range of experience and skill skills and this sort of, um, this blend of, of, of good people. That's when I think of a good agency because I'm in, in a good agency. That's what I think of. But it's not, it's not easy to find the right agency. Plus when people are looking for an agency, they're not, they're often not looking for an agency they're searching for, I don't know, they're looking for someone, someone to make my website better with SEO or whatever it is used to optimise my website, please. Or my website, um, doesn't rank for any the things I want it to rank for. I've done loads of Google search.
Ultimately, they're looking for more leads. They're looking for enquiries. They're looking to interpret.
Any one of those things as we need more leads. Yeah.
So one thing I would say, A um. As you try and solve the conundrum, how to find or discover the right agency is if you find when you're chatting to them, there's something doesn't quite sit right. Um, that's probably not going to work. You can't be, you can't have an agency and be suspicious or distrustful. Now, I'm not talking about like, oh yeah, that guy was really, really shifty. Uh, you know, because just like any industry, we've got plenty of people in our industry who are a little bit. Oh, a little bit way. If anybody remembers the Fast Show, you can't be suspicious or distrustful. So if you don't get that feeling and again, you probably only get that by doing a piece of work with them. Another, another, another option. Um, which I think we've talked about before, if you don't want to go to full discovery is a like a foot in the door project. So you've just got maybe a very specific small thing that you absolutely know needs to be done, fixed, created or whatever. Maybe, maybe your website's got a few bugs in it. You know, it's got pages that are coming up with some weird text on there because it's actually throwing a server error. You know, a little project like that. Do that, do a foot in the door project. What I'm driving at is do something meaningful, that the discovery is extremely powerful and meaningful. But if you didn't want to do that, then try them out with something, um, you know, something smaller. A foot in the door.
Tightly defined.
Because, you know, to me, you have to feel the same way, um, about an agency as you would perhaps if you were hiring at C-suite level.
That is exactly what I was going to say. Okay. Your agency. Treat them like the employee that you really would love to hire if you had all the Everybody put in front of you and you had carte blanche to pick the, the, the employee that that you is just your dream employee or the person who you're going to sit at the table. Yeah. Like you say, C-suite and make those decisions just, you know, pick the agency that would be the. Employee you like of your dreams.
Yeah. But I think it's important to, to stress that you're not talking about hiring like an employee. Yeah. I imagine you were hiring a leader of staff. Yes. A leader, a member of a member of the board, a sea level. Yeah. You may think of it as a sea level type higher now. Crikey. I mean, big businesses go through ridiculous processes in order to hire C-suite people. But it's kind of like that. I think I think a little bit like that.
Well, you wouldn't do that lightly, would you? You know, you'd take your time. You'd really have you'd have a list of things that that person has to have under their belt. Yeah. You'd you'd be deadly serious about it.
It's also important that you have conversations about money. Now, going back to discovery, you don't know until you've done discovery work what the required budget needs to be. Um, but as an agency, we, we'll have very open and honest conversations with potential customers about what an engagement with others is likely to cost. By saying, well, we work with this engineering company or that engineering company or this consultancy or this firm of accountants or whatever, and they pay us X thousand pounds a month. And for that we do A, B, C and D and E or whatever. So they get a feel for what they're getting into. So I think the financial side of things is another area where people fret. First of all, if they haven't got experience of working with agencies, then any potential retainer is going to sound like a lot of money.
It's also sound like a big commitment.
It sounds like a big commitment as well. Yeah. So what I would say is if you don't have a good conversation about the financial aspects early on, that's going to come and bite you on the bum. I mean, if you're going to fret about the payments, if you're concerned whether whether you've got the cash flow to support the marketing activity, then that's not going to work. Because ultimately, if you if you run out of money halfway through an engagement, then nobody benefits as a business, you're not going to benefit. The agency doesn't benefit. All right. They've had, you know, a few months money out of you, but nobody really benefits from a situation like that.
Yeah. Those short term Engagements that where people literally say, you know, we've run out. It feels very sad because we always have great ideas and we have plans in place for all the great stuff we're going to do for people. So it does it, it does, it does, uh, pay pay, no pun intended, but it does pay to put your brain on that first and to be honest with, with yourself about it.
So I think we've gone some way towards helping people understand how to find the right agency and what it is that agencies actually do. And I think if you set aside the technical and creative skill sets, if you assume that anybody you're speaking to has got that technical and creative skill set and they've got it in-house, they're not outsourcing it to some low cost economy, you'll be able to work with and speak with the designers, the developers, the strategists, the people writing the content, the people doing the search, marketing, etc. if you know that all that's in place, ultimately it comes down to personalities. It comes down to getting a good feeling. It comes down to chemistry. It comes down to all of the normal human aspects of, um, forming a relationship. Would you agree?
Yeah. In a nutshell.
Okay. Which just brings me on to the sort of closing statement. And I, and I wish I'd come up with this, but I didn't, but, um, I got an email in from agency hackers. Um, that's like a collaboration agency collaboration. It's like agency leaders across the UK, a part of agency hackers. It's a great organisation. Um, but they put an email out talking about, um, a member of the agency hackers who'd lost And a potential piece of work had gone somewhere else, and they followed it up a month later. Just said, we're sorry we didn't, you know, win the war we wish we had. How's the engagement going? And the engagement wasn't going well. And apparently, whether this is true or not, the client had said to them, to us, it feels like the Rolling Stones turned up and pitched to us. And then s s club seven rocked up to do the actual work. And I just thought that was brilliant. And I just thought we've been quizzed about this recently when I was doing not a discovery, but I was doing a sort of a face to face, an intro kind of meeting. And, you know, the guy actually said to me, and I was, I was a little bit kind of put out because the guy said to me, oh, we had a quote from another agency. And basically it's an older guy with a gift of the gab, and then he sells it, and then he's got a bunch of kids who he pays peanuts to who actually do the work. Is that what you do? And I kind of felt a bit like. Like I maybe just gonna leave. I'm gonna not bother. But I didn't, you know, I knew where they were coming from, but it that that the fact that he asked me that fed straight into this idea that there's suspicion and, you know, and people are unsure and nervous, etc., etc.. So I kind of just accepted that that's, that's where he was. It was just a place he was in. So I left it at that. But what I would say is that certainly when it comes to finding the right agency, establish who's going to do the right, who's going to do the work, you know, is it going to be the Rolling Stones who pitch to you, or is it going to be S club seven that they hand the work off to once the Rolling Stones have moved on to the next pitch?
Isn't it amazing, though, that the Rolling Stones in twenty twenty two are still considered the epitome of class?
Absolutely. Yeah. I thought it was good. Anyway, I think we've probably done this one to death. I hope it was of some use. Getting some information about how to find or discover the right agency for for your organisation. If you've got any questions around hiring an agency, then feel free to drop us a note and read evolution dot com, um, or redevolution.com/digital-marketing-from-the-coalface, which is where we, where we house the podcast, where the podcast lives. Um, if you'd like to come on and talk about any aspect of growing your business, digital marketing, if you've got any questions for us, fire them over. Um, we've got some good guests coming up in the next few weeks, I think, um, we've got some good guests pencilled in which I'm looking forward to. Um, in the meantime, it's been Dave and Karen from their motorhome in a windswept field in Cornwall. Um, paid a visit by an owl getting chased by a magpie part way through the podcast. Um, but that's all for us from us for now.
Cheerio.