If you are in a competitive niche and you haven't got very much budget, do not waste it on PPC. If you are paying five, ten, fifteen, twenty quid a click, what you. I only want to spend twenty quid a day. It just isn't going to work. So you've got to do the research and figure out what a realistic budget is for Google. First of all, to learn about your website, your adverts, your audience, and try and send you some good traffic. And then once it's learned to actually then have some budget left to really kind of try and drive some meaningful traffic.
So the thing you've got to be thinking is if your keyword costs five pounds, say, and you want it and thirty people search it a day and you want to get in front of those thirty people, you've got to be able to say, I'm going to spend five times thirty that day. You have to be able to and willing to bid enough to cover your bases. There's no point in going into it thinking, oh, well, it's twenty quid a click and I've got twenty quid, so I'll just get the one click and see what happens.
Right? So, Alex, you look really serious. It's dead funny. You should come and see Alex. He looks really serious. Um. Right. So this is a first for us. Um, and we're doing it as a bit of a demo. This is where we're actually recording the podcast and simultaneously live streaming it. Um, but we elected to kind of do it as a bit of a soft launch. As in we're not.
Really, we don't have a clue.
We're not really. Yeah, we haven't got a clue what we're doing behind the cameras. If you could see what we could see is a bit Heath Robinson. But you know what? We've we've figured it out, uh, using iPhones and iPads and things, and it seems to be okay. We'll soon tell. Um, so bear with us. Um, nobody who's nobody's listening. So we know we haven't told anybody we're doing it. So. Leslie. Yeah, Leslie's listening and it gives gives Leslie a chance to actually play around with the tech as well. We're using, um, basically we're using Streamyard and that allows us to record it, uh, live stream it to various platforms. At the moment we're only live streaming it to YouTube, I think. And then obviously, for anyone who's just listening to this as a podcast, because it's just a regular podcast as well, they probably think we're utterly mad because I have no idea what we're talking about. Like, yeah, get on with it, get on with it. So, um, what we're going to do today is it's not, not so much as an idiot's guide, but like a back to basics, uh, with Google ads, PPC and by the way, uh, Leslie, uh, Caron didn't charge your phone, so at one point you may find that the camera that's on Alex goes off.
That would be not great.
Nothing to do with me. Nothing to do with me. Um, but we have got that one over there. Let's see. I can see both of us. I can't really look around and look at that one. Right. Business to business, basic business to business basics for PPC. So really we're kind of talking about trying to make sense of PPC for marketing managers, business owners who are not across it basically. And that's fine that you're not across it. And we also understand that for many people, it's horribly confusing. Would you.
Say? Yeah. And it's developed a bit of a reputation as something you have to be a specialist in to do well. I mean, even internally we've been having these discussions, haven't we, that, you know, people often feel like they don't know as much about it as they should or they want to. I think ultimately, the thing is, even if you're going to delegate it to somebody else to run it for you, you ought to know at least the fundamentals of how it works.
Yeah. Okay. So let's get down to the absolute fundamentals when you should consider doing PPC and when you should not consider doing PPC. Yeah. So maybe cover that off first when when in very simple terms, when would we advise people that PPC is a good plan?
So I think it works really well if you.
Don't like being on camera.
Pressure's on now. Um, no, no. So I think the main thing is it. Use it if you know exactly what your audience are looking for online, like if they're on Google searching for very intent based keywords like, you know, I need a new engine for my car or I want a new.
Widget accountant Aberdeen or something like that.
Exactly. Yeah. Use it if you know that you are not or cannot rank organically for that search term. Also, I think we've discussed this a bit before, haven't we? And when we were planning this episode, the other thing is this whole concept of like noisy SERPs, right?
So it's yeah, you've kind of gone way ahead. I mean, that's on my list because you can read my notes upside down as usual. It's on my list, but it's like way down the list.
We'll put, we'll put a pin in that then. But yeah, use it, use it when you basically, you know that the people are out there searching for what you want. You know that you can get in front of them quickly using PPC ads. And also, I guess when it's not cost prohibitive to do so, because I think one of the things, and maybe this is sort of too fundamental and back to basics, in which case, tell me to shut up. But one of the things that a lot of people forget about Google ads is that you're in an auction. It feels when you're using it like you're telling Google, oh, I want to bid fifty per click. And that's an arbitrary number. But what's actually happening is you're competing with everybody else who's decided to target that search term. And what that means in real terms is that if you are in a niche where not many other people are doing pay per click advertising, you can say, yeah, you know what? It's cost effective for me to spend twenty, thirty, forty per click on a, on a given click for a keyword. But if you're in a niche where everybody else is doing this, everybody understands the value of the clicks. Um, you might be looking at paying fifteen, sixteen quid a click. Um, and that, you know, that can be a huge problem. And again, it's very easy to find all this stuff out, you know, before you get too invested before you start doing it. But I think one of the key things is only do PPC when it is cost effective to do so.
Okay, when it's cost effective to do so. It's quite a broad statement. What about going back to what you were discussing? Um, the, this idea, this concept, if you like, of noisy burps, which sounds really geeky. So unpack that for everybody.
Uh, so basically Google likes to experiment with what is and isn't in a Serp. So it used to be whoa, search engine results.
Thank you.
When you googled something, you used to get ten organic listings and then a next button. So you could go to page two and look at the next ten organic listings. And then over time, they started sort of inserting things into them. So ads are an obvious one. Um, all the little pop outs and the featured snippets and the map packs and all of that stuff. Um, so now for some search terms, you will find when you Google them that the top of the page, you know, for a good sort of like five or six scrolls is just adverts, map packs, featured snippets and on some searches, you even see sort of four or five ads before you get to the organic listings. And they're what we'd call a noisy Serp. And basically what that means is that even if you're ranking in position one or two Organically, people have still got to scroll past five or six other things to find you. So yeah, we have situations where we have a lot of clients who, you know, you can get them ranking at the top of page one of Google and they still don't get any clicks because all of the clicks are going to those ads.
Yeah, we've got one client in particular in the managed IT services niche. We've got some we've done some fantastic work. They're all over page one for all kinds of different search terms. So in theory, they should be getting, um, a shitload of traffic and enquiries, but in actual fact, um the noisy Serp this, the search engine results page for those particular searches is, as you said, got so much stuff on it that really people are not getting far enough down the page to, to click organic search results because, you know, let's face it, Google is increasingly disguising, uh, to many people. They barely think, you know, you can barely tell, you can see is it sponsored they use at the moment that's, you know, they've gone back to that. They used to be clearly easily acceptable.
They used to be bright yellow urine, but back in the days of old. But yeah. And I think one of the key things with that sort of thing, and we see it with our stuff too, you know, we know that we rank well for searches like SEO Edinburgh, stuff like that. But we also know from going into Search Console, which, you know, free software, um, from Google that tells you what people are actually using to find your website. We can see that we get thousands of impressions for that search because we're showing up on the page very few clicks because people don't actually get down far enough. So when you have that sort of problem where you're like, right, I've spent all this time and effort and energy ranking on page one for the search term, and I'm still not getting anywhere. Yeah, that's probably why.
You know, another thing you said as well is like being using paid search, PPC, Google ads, uh, or Bing ads. Uh, when you maybe don't rank for things organically. So you're maybe a new business or maybe a business that hasn't really put any energy into optimising a great website. So you're not getting found in the organic search results, Therefore, using paid search can do a couple of things. It can give you some really good market intelligence because it can show you exactly what your potential customers are typing into Google. And that's good data, but it can also potentially get some clicks to your website, get some eyeballs on your website, and help you sell some of the stuff you sell.
I think it's also a really good prospecting tool used in conjunction with SEO as well. I mean, you know, we have one client in particular that I'm thinking of that we've sort of started working with quite recently. And they make and sell HR software. There's a whole thing around them where, you know, they have a lot of prospective keywords that they think people are using, but they're not sure exactly which ones are driving the right kind of customer. Right. So it's like all of these keywords that they're, they're thinking about trying to rank for have slightly differing intent behind them or used by slightly different type of person. And if you're not sure where you should be putting your energy and effort, experimenting with AdWords is a really good way of sort of testing the waters. If you like, you can shove something up for all ten keywords that you're thinking of optimising your homepage for. You can see which ones actually drive converting traffic. and then you can say, okay, I'm going to put my eggs in that basket.
Okay. So let's investigate. Let's talk briefly about some of the times when maybe you shouldn't use PPC and some of the classic mistakes that we see people make. Let's try and do the mistakes. Second, can we think of any clear examples where PPC probably just isn't worth considering? Maybe when it's search terms that are not commercial. Now, there would be people that would argue that with some justification, if you've got people carrying out informational searches that you don't rank for and you did PPC so that you appeared on page one and got found, they might land on a page of information which might not immediately drive an enquiry or a sale, but it at least puts you into their thought.
Process as a brand awareness.
Provider. Brand awareness. Thank you. Yeah. That's right. Um, examples of when you maybe shouldn't use PPC.
I mean, Um, off the top of my head.
Well, I can think of another one.
I would say for things that potentially for things that, you know, are going to be a very hard sell as well. Like, um, where there's, you know, I'm just trying to think of how to articulate this example properly.
Um, this might take a while.
Um, well, I'm thinking like for SaaS stuff as well, like it's famously expensive and.
Software as a service.
Yeah. It's famously expensive and not very effective because you're trying to sell somebody something that you know, is sort of intangible is quite difficult to define. And where, you know, there's a really long sales process and people have to be sort of like nurtured really slowly and taught how to think about the product. And, you know, sometimes people get very caught up in the fact that, oh, there's some search volume around this keyword that is sort of related to what I do, even though my product's really complicated and hard to communicate, you know, there are certain, I think, products and services that just don't really suit pay per click as a model, people are going to click on something and expect to find an answer to their question, or.
A few more obvious things that I can think of are. If you are in a competitive niche and you haven't got very much budget, do not waste it on PPC because you'll you, if you are paying, you know, five, ten, fifteen, twenty quid a click, but you I only want to spend twenty quid a day. It just isn't going to work. So you've got to do the research and figure out what a realistic budget is for Google. First of all, to learn about your website, your adverts, your audience, and try and send you some good traffic because it doesn't happen straight away. People think it does, but it doesn't. It's got to learn. And then once it's learned, you know, to actually then have some budget left to really kind of try and drive some, some meaningful traffic.
Yeah. And that's key. I think that that sort of thing around when you are initially trying to scope out pay per click, is it affordable? How much are my keywords? The thing you've got to be thinking is if your keyword costs five pounds, say, and you want it and thirty people search it a day and you want to get in front of those thirty people, you've got to be able to say, I'm going to spend, you know, five times thirty that day. That's right. I'd do the maths on the fly, but I'm not a maths person, obviously. Um but yeah, so the fundamental point is you have to be able to and willing to bid enough to cover your bases. There's no point in going into it thinking, oh well it's twenty quid a click and I've got twenty quid, so I'll just get the one click and see what happens.
Okay. Um other, other times when you probably shouldn't consider doing PPC would be if you have very little opportunity to modify your website. So if you've got a website that's kind of, it's just a right royal pain in the arse to try and get changes made, get pages added, all of that stuff. If that, you know, if that's the case, PPC might not work out for you because you do need to be able to change the messaging on pages. You might even want to create dedicated landing pages as well, which you don't have to do on your main website. You can just do them in a, in a subdomain, like, you know, Dot Reddit dot com. For example, we could we could build our landing pages using that subdomain so that we keep it completely away from the website because it is separate to the website. It's not. And I think, you know, I've got on my list to chat about search engine optimisation, PPC, and search engine optimisation are they're only related in one sense, in my view. And the one sense is that the PPC can gather data for you that you could then use as part of your SEO search engine optimisation work. Other than that, paying for adverts does not help you in the organic rankings. There's been a lot of chit chat over the years about that, and some people say, oh, I started buying adverts on Google and my rankings dropped, or the other way around, the other way around, you know, and it, it's anecdotal. It's, it's, I think it's completely wrong. It's, it's misinformation. And just think of the two things as being completely separate. Yeah. Um, okay, just, just a bit of a recap then. So using paid search can be good if you know that there's an audience for your product or service and you're not getting in front of them because your website doesn't rank organically and don't make the mistake of just sending them to your website. Make sure that you're sending people who click the advert to the right bit of your website, or even better, a dedicated page on your website. Be prepared to spend a bit of money both on the design aspect, getting the pages ready or the landing page, and allowing Google to learn about your business and learn about the keywords in your audience.
Yeah. And I think it's really worth kind of hammering that point about the design home. I mean, I think probably a lot of people listening to this, when you hear fundamentals of PPC, you think, oh, someone's going to teach me how to set up an ad group. Someone's going to teach me how to set up a campaign. I think all of that kind of mucky, sort of gritty stuff, people get very caught up in it the day to day running of an AdWords campaign and forget that actually what you're doing is paying to send visitors to a web page. So at least half the work you're doing needs to be on that web page. You know, make it good. Make the messaging resonate, make sure it looks attractive, make sure it's easy to use. And don't just think that by going on AdWords and sort of setting up some nice, attractive ads that you're suddenly going to land conversions because all you're going to do is increase the amount of traffic reaching your already underperforming landing pages.
Yeah. That's right. And I was going to add some value to what you just said there. And it's completely escaped my mind. I do that, I should write them down, you know, I'm thinking of these things. Um, it was to do with the, to do with something to do with the landing pages. And I can't for the life of me. Oh that's right. If your landing page is, uh, really good, both aesthetically to, to engage people, but obviously also from the point of view of the content on them, then that gets rewarded with a higher quality score, which is this arbitrary measure that Google puts in place. Really, it's looking at the connection between the keywords you're ranking for, the keywords you're bidding on, rather the adverts you've written and the page you send people to. And it's looking for a seamless experience so that it's right. It's looking for a good user experience across that. And if it's good, then you'll get rewarded with a high quality score, which means.
Well, it means you pay less effectively. There's a very complicated equation that they work. They used to work out what you actually pay when you bid, and somebody clicks your ad. And basically a good quality score acts as a sort of negative modifier on that. So it just brings the price down by a set amount. But the key, I think to pick up on what you were saying there about the user experience is what Google wants is obviously somebody searching, you know, um, cheap deals on Skoda rental to land on a page that, that well yeah. I mean um that, that talks about renting them skodas and it's that cut and dry and unfortunately they're not very sophisticated with it. So you want another reason to not do PPC unless you have total control over the website and the ability to produce new landing pages quite quickly is that even if you say a car rental business, you have some skodas, you have some Renaults, you know, you decide that you want to stick up a new ad for the Renault one, but you don't have a dedicated page for it. You will end up with a terrible quality score. You'll end up with your ads not performing properly. So you need to be able to, if you're going to pivot, if you're going to set up a new ad group, if you're going to add some new keywords, you need to very quickly be able to spin up a new dedicated landing page that talks to that. So, and one of the things we do come across quite often is people like, oh, well, I've been doing PPC about this for a while and now I want to advertise this other service, and they'll just sort of set up a PPC campaign that points to their home page or, you know, category page or something. And it just just doesn't work.
So, okay, let's quickly skip through some of the mistakes that we see often and will cost you money and are best avoided.
Mhm. Uh, well, that's one of them not having dedicated landing pages.
Yeah.
Okay.
Um, we've done that one. Yeah.
The other one is just sort of randomly picking keywords that seem sort of related. Um, you end up with big buckets in some people's ad groups. You'll look at them and you'll just see that they've gone for everything, you know, sort of from sort of, I don't know, say it's a lawyer and they're going for like her, um, home insurance cases, divorce cases and everything like that, all lumped together into one ad group. That really doesn't work.
Okay, so so make sure you've got a clear strategy. Yeah. And it makes sense at every level. It makes sense to you as a business. It makes sense to the people you're trying to attract. The whole thing has been thought about.
Yeah. And I think just sanity check, stuff like that. I mean, we do it all the time, don't we? Internally, it's just like, have a look at this thing that I've set up. Does that make sense? Does it seem coherent or does it seem like it's got a bit woolly or whatever? Okay. Um, not experimenting with the ads enough is another really common mistake. People will just write an advert, you know? What was that Heath Robinson thing?
No, it's actually my, um because it's all a bit Heath Robinson. This that's that's my, um calendar telling me I've got a meeting at three o'clock, which I have now.
And will be late.
At half past three instead, but that's fine.
Um, people don't experiment with ads enough at all. They'll write an advert, they'll think that's it. That's that's shit hot. I've written fourteen great headlines. I'll just leave that in the wild forever. Um, and again, you know, one of the aspects of quality score is ad click through rate. So if nobody's clicking on your ad, your quality score just drops and drops and drops. So you want to make sure that you kind of continually looking for new ways to engage people. Okay.
There's the obvious things like, not that, you know, like accepting Google's recommendations, that's nearly always a bad idea.
Yep.
Yeah. Google will. I'm not saying it's malicious, but.
It's a little malicious.
They actually be careful. They're actually trying to get you to spend money. That's their business model. And you know, we've I don't know. We I think it's widely accepted that that sometimes Google will say, hey, you know, you should bid on this keyword because for some random reason, the artificial intelligence behind the Google Ads algorithm just makes a bad call because, you know, artificial intelligence, wonderful though it is, can get it, as we all know, spectacularly wrong as well.
And also they're just not privy to the conversations that you as a business owner have with people every day. I mean, we, you know, an example that happened this morning, we were looking at an account for a design agency. they've decided to niche right down. They want a very specific type of customer who's looking for very expensive sort of prototypes designing. And one of the recommendations in their Google Ads account was, oh, just start bidding on design agency. And it's like you've missed that. You've picked up on the fact they're a design agency, completely missed the point that they're looking for a very specific set of niche visitors. And that's the thing. Google doesn't know anything really, except what you've told it. And most of the time it's going to get it spectacularly wrong.
And that's probably one of the reasons why we've heard many times people say to us, no, I don't want to do Google ads. I tried it once. It was a colossal waste of money. I got absolutely no business out of it. I mean, that is really common to hear that.
Well, and it's I think it's largely because, you know, we said at the beginning of this, this is about B2B, Google ads. And one thing I will say is that Google's artificial intelligence and all of its algorithms, they're fairly sophisticated and actually do work quite well if you're doing what Google ads is sort of primarily intended for, which is flogging cheap crap on the internet. Like if you are in e-commerce and you are selling cheap wallets or trainers or jackets or whatever, you can pretty much just go into Google ads, set up an ad group with loads of broad match, which is without getting too geeky, just sort of like broadly defined terms that Google can interpret how it likes around like jacket or wallet or something, and let it use its machine intelligence to sort of run thousands of experiments on all the people googling that term until it finds the exact ones that are going to convert. And it works kind of fine. The problem is, all of those algorithms are designed to work at scale and at pace. And when you're in a small B2B niche where maybe thirty people search for something a month, they just they just straight up don't work.
So I would say that like the, um, algorithmic use of paid search, uh, B2C, you know, large scale type stuff. That's not the sort of thing that we know a lot about. If anyone wants to come on the show and talk about that side of PPC, I'd be delighted to have you on to talk about doing that kind of stuff where you're into, you know, big budgets and many thousands, if not millions of clicks and things like that. And that's, again, that's not where we're coming from. Okay. And again, today isn't about like the nitty gritty of setting up campaigns so much as what we're trying to say to people is like, don't just click a few buttons and expect miracles to happen. You will spend.
Definitely don't.
Do that. Yeah, you will spend money. Um, you might get clicks, you probably won't generate any business. And you'll be one of those people who tells that story of spending a fortune on PPC and getting nothing from it.
Yeah.
Okay. So I don't want to labour the mistakes. I mean, we're fans of PPC. Uh, we think it's a really powerful tool. It's great. So we don't want to kind of try and make out that it's something you should avoid because you definitely shouldn't. Uh, one aspect of it, and again, let's keep it a sort of high ish level, but the amount of tracking and looking at how the thing's performing, often referred to as conversions, um, you know, are the clicks generating business for me? Don't, uh, don't ignore that stuff.
Yeah. Don't skimp on it. And especially with things like at the other end of forms recording exactly which campaign and which ad group and which keyword people have clicked to convert and fill in that form is really important, because what you don't want to end up in is a situation where you sort of think your pay per click advertising is working. You're not really sure why, you're not sure which bits are functioning, and then you just think, oh, I'll turn this bit off and see what happens. And it sort of tanks your business.
So the nice thing about PPC advertising is it's, it's very easy to get, for example, some information, say for example, somebody has arrived on your website and they fill in a form to say, I'm interested in this service or that service. This is my name. Please get in touch with me. You can capture at the same time which advert they clicked, which campaign it came from, what keyword they typed in. All of that data gets.
Really.
Available to you. And that's really valuable data that you can use both to improve your PPC campaigns. But then further afield, you can use it as part of your SEO work. Yep.
Yeah.
Okay. Um, one thing I would say when it comes to conversions and things, if you do use the HubSpot platform and we're fans, we're partners, HubSpot partners and, but we're nice HubSpot partners, we're not just trying to flog your software, you don't need.
Um, and this podcast definitely isn't sponsored by HubSpot. It's definitely not sponsored by HubSpot.
No, but we do like HubSpot. We use it ourselves. Um, and it was very easy to set up the conversion tracking HubSpot and the information you get back is really, to.
Be fair, I'm sure it is the same in a lot of modern CRMs. Like I'm sure that technology is getting there where it's just sort of a button click to say, start tracking conversions properly. Yeah.
That's right. Okay. Um, I think this is going to be a shorter podcast than normal because obviously we've been experimenting with all this stuff, the live casting and everything else. So, um, is there anything else? If we're talking to somebody about PPC, let's just say Google ads for the time being, the very highest level. You know, I think we've covered off all the important things or most of the important things. Is there anything else that we just need to cover off just to wind this up?
The only other thing I really want to say about it is that I think the eighty over twenty rule, sort of.
eighty twenty.
Applies.
It's known as pareto's rule or something like that. Is that or is that.
I don't know. But when you put us on the spot like this, when we're live now, we'll look like idiots. But, um, whatever the case, whatever it's actually called, it applies really strongly to pay per click ninety nine percent of the time.
Wait a minute. You just said eighty twenty rule then immediately introduced ninety nine percent. Is this the ninety nine one rule?
Complicated as possible. If you don't mind, I'm digging my own hole. Um, no. No. So most of the time, the real value has been being driven by a vanishingly small handful of keywords. Or single. Add a tiny bit of your campaigns. Yeah, that is perfectly normal. But I think the key to getting B2B, PPC right is sort of knowing how to find the bits that are really successful and sort of emphasise them. Loads of people, when you look at their accounts, they're spending a lot of money on stuff that just isn't generating any value. I think that's the sort of if there was one kind of key takeaway as to whether or not you're going to do this, it's do you have the time to sort of sit down and work out which bits of it are actually working for you? Because that is the key, really.
Yeah. Okay. And again, just, just to kind of totally wind things up, can we and I know the answer, but I'm playing devil's advocate. Can we, for example, with PPC, advertise to a very specific audience?
Uh, well, yes. Maybe.
Yes. Not tentative. Yes. I mean, we could say, for example, we want to advertise to a certain demographic, um, in a certain geographic location, the demographic stuff. How accurate is it, I don't know.
Well, and that's the kind.
Of geographic stuff is reasonably good. It's not bomb proof. It's reasonably good.
Yeah. We think. Yeah. I mean, yeah, with the caveat that if you set it up very carefully, because there are many sort of hidden options in the back end of AdWords that are designed to trip you up. And when it comes to things like geographic location, you by default, you can say, you know, Target Scotland and it will interpret that as target. Anybody who's ever shown the vaguest interest in Scotland, even if they live in Hyderabad. And that's, you know, again.
Do they like shortbread.
Do exactly. It looks they saw a deer once. They must be interested in Scotland. Yeah. So yes, you can sort of narrow it right down, but you have to be very careful when you're doing it. And you can't. What you can't do on pay per click advertising obviously is target by interest and stuff like you can on LinkedIn and Facebook. But yeah, I mean, demographic age, device location. Yeah.
Okay. If you're considering using paid search and you just want to have a chat, a no obligation, I hasten to add chat about whether or not PPC is right for your business. Then you can get in touch with us at red evolution dot com. Um, in the meantime, if you want to come on the show, we'd love to hear from you. And I think we're probably going to stick with this kind of doing it live type thing. Um, I, you know, we might actually improve the Heath Robinson setup, although it really won't be quite as bad next time because we'll actually.
Be.
Somewhat somewhat prepared to, to actually do it. I mean, even just having an individual stand for each of the bits of kit, and if you hadn't left your phone in Edinburgh, we would wouldn't have had to use the iPad. We could have used your phone as well.
Reasonable functioning adult would leave their phone in a different city. That one. Um, reasonable and functioning though, am I?
Okay, so, um, if you want to catch up on previous episodes, we're on, uh, you know, Spotify and Apple and we also live at, uh, fromthecoalface.com. In the meantime, thanks for listening. I know there was nobody watching this live cast unless they stumbled across it. If you did stumble across it. Hello. Thank you for listening. Thank you for watching. Um, but in the meantime, that'll do. Leslie. You can just turn it all off now. We're finished.
Thank you very much for listening.