How To Get Started With Email Marketing With Kelsey Johnson From AWeber – Episode 56

Across the whole piece with email marketing, what percentage of organisations are doing it well?

Between fifteen and twenty five percent of businesses are doing it right. And a lot of the businesses that you do get all of those emails from are those larger enterprise companies who have an entire team put together to test, and yet you get emails from them all the time and you're kind of like, uh, as a sort of smaller business or medium sized business, you have this target customer that you can speak to on a more personalised level. And so you can provide this email content that bigger SaaS companies are, they're trying, they're doing segmentation and personalisation and all this stuff that you can actually do as a smaller business too, but you have the language they have to do all this research to get that language that you have naturally. I always want to empower smaller businesses to make a go at it. Email is one of the best ways to actually make money from your marketing efforts.

Okay. Welcome back to Digital Marketing From The Coalface. And this week, I'm delighted to welcome Kelsey Johnson from AWeber. Um, Kelsey, do you want to introduce yourself? Tell us a bit about yourself and tell us about Weber, where you're currently working and what you do. And then we'll get into talking about, about how we use the software that you guys provide.

Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me on. Um, my name is Kelsey Johnson. I have been working for almost a decade in digital marketing, uh, for businesses of all sizes. Um, from, you know, small one off person all the way up to enterprise. And, uh, I now work at a company called a Weber. A Weber is an email marketing platform, uh, can do everything from send out emails, set up landing pages, set up automated emails. Um, and we even offer things like web push notifications and some e-commerce capability. So it's a really powerful tool, but it's also something that's really easy to use. And I know today we're going to talk about, you know, how to get started with that. So I'm really excited.

Yeah, I think so. I mean, from, from the point of view of the people who listen to this, uh, show and what they know that what we're trying to do is demystify and give them sort of useful takeaways, stuff that they can actually understand and do something with information they can understand and do something with. So that would be, uh, that would be great when we get on to that. That's good. So currently at Uber, you're a marketing manager or business development or what, what role do you have?

Yeah, I'm the product marketing manager. So it means I've got my finger on the pulse of exactly everything that our software can do, which is I think it's super fun. I love software, I am a huge proponent of automation and really making the software work for you. And what I'm really excited about is a lot of the stuff that is capability has been capabilities for large enterprise companies for years, is now available for sort of smaller and medium sized businesses, people who don't necessarily know how to figure out everything software, but still want to sort of take some of that work off their plate, grow their business, make more sales. And so I love, you know, a Weber and I love working with software like that because it can be so useful for, you know, people who aren't tech experts, people who aren't marketing experts, but who still want to get stuff done.

So absolutely. And I know that, um, because I checked you out on LinkedIn before, before we started this, you're an English graduate and, and words are your thing, aren't they? So it's not just about the software with you, is it? It's about using software to communicate with people. But more importantly, probably the actual words, the actual communication that's inside the emails, for example, that you're sending out and tracking and doing all kinds of wonderful things with, with a Weber.

Yeah, absolutely. I am a sort of wordsmith, as you would call it. Um, my degree is in English literature. Uh, one of my specialties is taking the tech stuff that's built by software engineers and explaining it in a way that makes sense to people who are as far away from a software engineer as you can get. So taking that concept of what's been built in code and basically making it an understandable product, an understandable software to use for people and explaining it that way. Um, when it comes to emails, uh, you know, I've written a lot of our emails at a Weber, I've done email a lot in the past alongside, you know, blogging and, um, all kinds of different what we call the, uh, you know, um, marketing industry copy, but basically just writing, writing that's good and makes sales. And if you are struggling with this, I hear you, I have a degree in English literature. I have done this for ten years. I do tons of testing. I do tons of research. I do tons of interviews with people who use our software. And I still find it hard. So, you know, we can talk about a couple of tips on, on how to make that a little bit easier for you.

But that's a great idea. Yeah, let's understand it. Mhm, mhm. You mentioned, uh, English literature and I just wanted to share, share something with you and anybody listening. I was, I think somebody on Twitter, uh, shared, um, you know, um, the, the speech from, uh, Julius Julius Caesar who gives, who gives the speech? Is it Mark Antony after Caesar has been killed? Come on, you're the English literature graduate. You must know that. You tell me. Come on, tell me. Which one is it anyway? But it was. It was basically an American guy with a, you know, like a baseball cap on and a check shirt looked like he was sat in his pickup and he'd set the video camera up and he it was in the lovely, lovely American drawl. And it was, uh, I'm going to try a tiny little impersonation of what he did because it was, it was really quite good. Um, so he's kind of looking at the camera and he's like, friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears. And and he carried on doing the whole speech. You know, I come to bury Caesar, not to praise him. And and, uh, Brutus is an honourable man, an honourable man. He's just a whole thing. And it was absolutely mesmerising. And what he did was he took something which a lot of people find quite complicated, I suppose. Like, I don't know if you did, but I mean, I loved reading, I didn't study English beyond kind of all level ordinary level in the UK, which is just like school, normal school. Um, but I loved reading Shakespeare, reading the plays and, and getting inside them, but a lot of people find it impenetrable. And what this guy had done in the video is he'd taken a very famous soliloquy, I suppose, from from Shakespeare and, and put it into a sort of a modern context. And it was fantastic. And that whole idea of like telling stories, communicating. I mean, I think we're kind of going off track a bit, but I think people miss that with the emails. You know, they kind of just like sending emails out, hey, you know, buy shit from us, you know? And it's kind of like, where are the stories? Where's the communication? Where's the engagement? Where's the kind of, oh, what's this? This isn't just what I expected. It was when I opened it. This is kind of interesting. Anyway, I digress. It was just because you're an English graduate and, and, and I just kind of I just remembered this video that I watched this morning, which was this American guy doing, doing that speech, which was just fantastic.

No. And you, you actually, you get down to a really good point with that story, which is.

Which is amazing. I usually ramble and go nowhere with these things. So if you found a point in there, then Then hats off.

To email marketing. Um, listen, the the literature analysis papers that I wrote in college. Do you think I write those in emails? Absolutely not. Nobody wants to read those except my college professors. And I got good grades on them. And the way that I write now as a marketer is I write the way that I talk, and I write the way that my customers think. And a lot of times when people are writing emails or website copy or blog posts or anything, they seem to think that they need to sound like they're writing an essay or like they're, you know, like they're using all the keywords or they're being super pretentious or, you know, sounding super fancy. And that's just people don't really read that much anymore at all, even do they? And so you have to think about a little bit more. Not only what would you want to hear in an email? Would you read your own email? Because if not, absolutely don't send it. But if your customers aren't anything like you, or if your clients aren't anything like you, which they may not be, you know, it might be a completely different type of person. How do they want to hear it? Do they want you to get straight to the point? Do they want to know about you as a person? Do they want to see a video? You know, and all of those things are things that you can test and incorporate in your email plans and, you know, really resonate with people in the way, like you said, by speaking to them in a way that they understand instead of in Shakespeare. You know, I love Shakespeare as much as the next English major, but but.

How do.

You in any of my emails?

No, that's right, you wouldn't. But how do you find the line? How do you find the balance when you're writing copy? Um, between following, I think it was Einstein's advice, you know, like if you can't explain it to a child, you don't understand it yourself kind of thing. So you're trying to explain things to people in a way that they warm to. They understand, but at the same time, you don't want to talk down to them. So. So do you think that is a difficult thing to achieve? To make sure it's simple, plain English, it doesn't sound wordy. It's easy to consume, but at the same time, it sounds like you know what you're talking about and you're not talking down to your audience. Does that make any sense?

Yeah, I use a lot of examples to do that. So rather than, uh, diving deep down and saying, you know, like if I were to say, but do you know what an email is? Right? That would sound like I'm talking down to somebody because everybody doesn't know what an email is. Um, I tend to like to dive into examples of. So have you gotten an email from Domino's recently? Oh, did you see this and this and this? Okay. That's what I'm talking about when I say using this component, using this type of test, using emojis in subject lines. You know, people don't necessarily think about using emojis in subject lines, but they know what an emoji is. They know what a subject line is. They know what an email is. So explaining that is talking down to them, but using using an example or in the case of if you're sending out an email from your business using a case study, using a previous client or customer that you've worked with that you had success with, and explaining in real terms what you did is a really good way to marry that. Not talking over somebody's head, but also not talking down to them in any way.

Okay. Got you. So typical of me. We've kind of wandered off a little bit away from, uh, where, where where not to three minutes ago, we were talking. I was saying, perhaps this is what we'll do. I'll just pull it slightly back on track. And I've just got a few, a few sort of generic questions, and I don't kind of want to go down all, you know, down that rabbit hole of all the usual stuff that, that you probably get asked, but it is successful email marketing, uh, about quantity or quality. It's a leading question, isn't it?

It's a very leading question. Um, I think it's about quality.

Yeah.

If you have, if you have the time and resources, the quantity is important. If you don't, then the quality is important. Sending out a new email with content that's going to be interesting. Like think about the person that's reading every single one of your emails, because there are those. There are people who are fans of your business, no matter what your business is, even if it's your mom, they're reading every single one of your emails. Make sure that they're not bored because you're sending them the same email every single time. Give them new quality content. But if people aren't reading your emails, that's something that a platform like a website or your email service provider knows. And so you can send them the email again that they didn't read in the past and see if you can capture their attention that way.

So do you think in some respects trying to draw parallels between email marketing and search engine marketing. With search engine marketing, I would rather have ten people on my website today who might be interested in hiring us to do some aspect of digital marketing, rather than some sort of, um, vanity metric, which is like, hey, you know, we had two thousand people on our website today. And do you think people get caught up with the, with email marketing? Do you think they get caught up with the numbers and maybe kind of lose track of the quality aspect of it?

Absolutely. And the biggest place that I see this is list growth. People wanting a humongous list that, you know, thousands and thousands of people, even though each one of your clients. What if each one of your clients is a ten thousand dollars contract, you know, which is true of a lot of businesses. You said that you work with a lot of engineers who are B2B. Those contracts are probably tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars. But even if each individual sale is less, the most important thing I always try to bring people back to is the sales. You know, you can you want to provide content. You want to provide value. You want to make sure your open rates are high, although that's a little bit of a metric that is less important these days. After the Apple update, we won't dive too super into that, but the click rate is important. And ultimately, your sales rate is the most important, whether you're making money off of this. And I always encourage businesses to keep their eye on the ball of, you know, don't put effort into it unless you're making sales from it.

Cool. Absolutely. So a bit of a difficult question to answer, maybe, but if you were to say across the whole piece with, with email marketing, what percentage do you think what percentage of organisations are doing it? Well, because I say that because like most people, we get bombarded with emails. I mean, every day you must you unsubscribe from, I don't know, ten emails that you never subscribed to in the first place. I mean, it is absolute spam city, isn't it?

Yeah, it absolutely is. And which is why. Well, first of all, I answer your first question. I think between fifteen and twenty five percent of businesses are doing it right. Wow.

Um, so huge opportunity, huge opportunity.

Very large opportunity.

Yeah.

And a lot of the businesses that you do get all of those emails from are those larger enterprise companies who have, you know, five email marketers who also have five designers on their team and they have videographers and they have an entire team put together to test to use software. They have, you know, technical email marketers who are people who just code it in. Right. And yet you get emails from them all the time and you're kind of like, uh, another one, you know what I mean? And but obviously it's working because that's why they keep sending them as a, as a sort of smaller business or medium sized business. Um, you have the opportunity to speak to your specific company. So there's one thing that I love about Non-enterprise companies and that is that every single one of them is a sort of niche experience, or at least the ones who are doing really well. You are serving a niche audience that there's probably an enterprise company out there that wishes they were serving. Right. But because of that, you have this target customer that you can speak to on a more personalised level because you know them, you've been working with them, you know what language they use. You talk to them because they're your customers or your clients. And so you can provide this email content that Macy's or my always my favorite example, just because it's always in my inbox is Domino's or even, you know, some of these bigger SaaS companies are they're trying. They're doing, um, segmentation and personalisation and all this stuff that you can actually do as a smaller business too. But you have the language they have to do all this research to get that language that you have naturally. And I always want to empower smaller businesses to make a go at it. You know, email is one of the best ways to actually make money from your marketing efforts because it's something that people well have to opt into or have the very good opportunity to opt out of. So the people who are getting your emails and reading your emails are your most opportune clients.

Okay, okay. I thought, and we did discuss this before we started recording. What might be useful for people listening is if we, um, we'll, we'll, we'll start a company. Um, Kelsey and Dave Enterprises. Um, so we've got this fictitious company, um, and we were an engineering company. We provide services to other, other companies. So we're kind of B2B, we've maybe got one hundred people, something like that. And with a, I don't know, annual revenues of, I don't know, fifty million, something like that. So decent size, good going business. Um, recognise that they've maybe been missing a trick because they haven't been regularly communicating with either customers or potential customers. They're not using email marketing at all. So I know I'm putting you on the spot with this, but we did discuss it five minutes ago. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna go with it anyway. Um, let's just kind of like it by bit. Where do we start? What's the absolute starting point when you decide as a business who's not doing this at the moment, um, that you're going to try email marketing, you're going to sign up to a Weber great platform. It's going to help you. But where do we start?

Well, David, first of all, I'm very excited to start a business with you. I think with our marketing backgrounds, we're going to have a lot.

We just can't fail.

We can't.

Fail.

Um, so I would say, and really getting down to the depths of it. Um, the first decision you need to make is to actually do email. Um, and I think that's a decision that a lot of businesses don't make. They're like, oh, maybe I'll, you know, have a Facebook account or set something up on Instagram or Twitter and that'll be my. And then people will go to my website and then call me and, uh, and that'll be my business. That'll be great. I'm going to have all the leads. You know, Facebook is huge. Everybody's there. Yeah. And so I would say make the decision to do email. And the reason that you should make the decision to do email is, first of all, like I said, reach your most engaged customers and and prospects. Um, and you can monetise, you can make more money by reaching those people, by nurturing them. We'll get into that in a minute. Okay. Um, another thing you can do is build a community. There's a, you know, community building is a huge part of owning a business these days. You know, this, you have a podcast. Mhm. Um, maybe you're in my business can start up a podcast too, but, you know, we need a way to continue to reach out to the people who have joined our community. So make the decision to do it. And then you have to choose an email service provider like a Weber or one of the other ones.

Um, we would only choose simply because we, you know, we're, we're a really savvy company, you know, Kelsey and David.

We're.

We've, we've, we've looked at the market, we've tried, we've not even tried the others. We just looked at everything. We thought, these are the guys, a Weber. That's the one we're going to use.

Yeah. Well listen, if you are looking at the market or if you are deciding on a Weber, um, you know, there's just a couple of things to consider, which I feel like everybody knows, but I just want to cover them anyway, which is, you know, look at the cost. Um, look at try it out, see if it's easy to use. Uh, has a free plan, not even a free trial, like an actual free plan that you can use. So just sign up. It's completely free. See if once you get in there, if it's easy to use, um, see if it integrates with your other systems. So, you know, we say integration all the time and tech world or whatever, but basically an integration means that, uh, it talks to your other software. So if you have a CRM platform or if you have a form platform where you're using to collect, uh, subscribers, or if you're using Etsy or anything like that, see if there's an actual connection between that platform and your email provider so that you don't have to manually copy and paste things into a different platform. Um, and then the last one is just support, you know, make sure that the, the platform that you use is going to support you and have a team that can actually help you. There are a lot of them out there who you know they'll send you to help docs. It's the most frustrating thing in the world when I'm like, I just need to know how to figure out how to do this one tiny little specific thing. And you're sending me to like a, like I said, a page full of reading and we don't like to read. Even the English majors don't like to read that much anymore. So a good support team is important. All right.

So just just to pick up on that quick, quick, quick question, uh, is a Weber, uh, does it provide support by partnering with agencies like HubSpot, for example, or does it provide support directly? Are you the support? AM I contacting you when I need help you as the business.

It's it's direct support. We have an in-house team, which is knows they know more than I do. If you if you called me, I wouldn't be able to solve your problem as well as anybody on our support team. Uh. They are incredible. They're available by phone, live chat twenty four over seven and then email too. So that's really the way to go when you're solving a problem. And it's one of the things that people like the most about a Weber, a real person who really knows the software, who can really help you out.

Good. Okay, I'll stop interrupting.

No, no, no, I love talking about that. Um, okay, so we've chosen a Weber as our email service provider. We've decided to do email. We've signed up for a plan. Um, and then, you know, we have to work on getting customers into our platform, right? We, we can start sending emails to, you know, ourselves. And then my mom and you know, anybody like that, but the, the money comes when you get your customers in there. So, um, if you've got a spreadsheet with the customers already in it, you know, with just name and email address and any other information that you have on them, like the service you provided or, um, you know, maybe their interests, uh, if you're giving out content or something like that, make sure you get all of that imported into the tool, but you need to set up a process for bringing people in more often. And that process will differ from business to business depending on how you reach your customers first, right? If you have a huge social presence, you know, if if what we decided to do was start up a business and then go deep on, you know, making, trying to make viral TikTok and Instagram and, you know, doing Twitter threads. And we built an audience there. That's where we need to start bringing them into the, into the platform. And you can do that with, um, like a linked list, right? A Weber has something that's a landing page builder. And you can basically make a mobile friendly list of links and you put that link in your bio. Just say, you know, hey, go sign up for us. Um, now the key to getting people signing up from social is what we in the marketing world call a lead magnet. But it's basically a freebie, right? So if we were offering marketing services, um, in our business, I would maybe do a checklist of, you know, are you, these are the ten most essential things that you should already be doing for your business and marketing. Um, are you doing them? Turn that into a quick checklist, one PDF page, but offer that in exchange for somebody signing up for my email list. So they are interested in my services. They clearly need a marketer. And you know, I say on Twitter, you know, here are my three top, uh, things that you absolutely must be doing as a small business in marketing. To get the ten top list, head to my bio or click on this link. And, uh, and you can get my checklist. So we've seen this. Everybody's seen this. Who's been on any kind of social media tool or anything like that, where you get a freebie and you pay for it with your email address, basically. And it's sort of like something that's so obvious and blatant, but it still works. You know, people still sign up for your email list to get the freebie, and maybe not everybody will stick around and maybe not everybody will turn into a customer, but some people will. And that's the important thing. You got to get that volume.

So is there any alternative to its gated content. Effectively it's a gated freebie. Tell us who you are. Give us your email. Are we kind of stuck with that model? I mean, have you seen any other models where you just got people to sign up, maybe on the promise of what they'll get once they've signed up? Or does it have to be something like as soon as you sign up?

Yeah. No. Absolutely not. And you can promise value in the newsletter itself. So you, you know, obviously with like a I've, I've signed up for several local news newsletters and I know every single day or every couple of days I'm going to get news. I am also signed up for newsletters that provide a lot of high level, heavily researched marketing content because I'm a marketer. Yeah. I didn't get any freebies for signing up for those emails, but the content I get every single time it comes into my inbox is highly valuable. Now, if you're going to go down that road, I have a, I have a recommendation for you. Um, there is something in a Weber and I think a lot of the tools have something like this. We call it a newsletter hub, but it's basically an archive. So if you, you know, especially if we were just getting started, but we were like, hey, I'm a writer, you're a writer, let's write stuff that's really interesting and that people are going to want to read. Um, we could write, you know, maybe three or four or five emails first and then instead of offering a freebie to sign up for our list, we can send people to this archive page, which is basically it looks like a blog page, but they can read our previous emails. And if they read like three and they're like, oh, that's great. I absolutely want to see that. And it doesn't even have to be good writing. I mean, if you wanted to send out a weekly cute dog pick, that would probably be a good tactic to keep.

Cute dogs always.

Popping your emails, always popular, you know, anything like that. And then they can sign up for your list there. So I've seen authors do this a lot because authors are obviously writers. The people who follow them and listen to them are interested in reading what they write. So each one of their newsletters is like a cute little story or just an anecdote, but written in their style of voice. So, you know, as with everything, it just depends. But if you're really excited about providing that really awesome content week in and week out, you don't need to, you know, entice somebody. You don't need to trick somebody into your list.

Yeah, I think tricking I think that's definitely something to avoid. Either tricking or, or actually the other end of that scale might be just not really caring. Not just like, yeah, how big's the, how big is the list that you've built? Well, you know, there's not much in there. How, what, what? Well, we've got a thing on our website that says sign up for our newsletter. That's it. We don't know what we're going to get. You know, they're not they've just made zero effort and just expected somehow that people are just going to go, oh look, there's a box where I can type my email address and sign up for something. I better put my email address in there. People don't do that.

Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah. Let them know what they're getting put in. Maybe like a quote, if you can find a customer who really likes your emails, if we call that social proof, but just put their little quote next to your, uh, sign up box saying, this email is great. I get it every week or something, you know, something like that. And that, that kind of proof, even though you wrote it on your own website, you probably could have even made it up. Please don't make it up. But you could have people see that and they're like, okay, this might be good for sure.

That's right. The social proof angle is so important across digital marketing in general. So yeah, it makes perfect sense that it would be just as important with email marketing.

I follow an email, um, that where the guy right after he signs his name, so he's giving me the content. It's pretty short. So it's a short email to read every week. And right after he signs his name, he says, do you love these emails? Forward them to somebody you think might like them too. And then just as big, he says, do you not love these emails? Unsubscribe now. So he is encouraging you. If you don't like the email, unsubscribe. Don't don't keep getting my emails. I don't want to bug you. But if you do like them. Yeah. And that's like that kind of word of mouth marketing is something that's just so gold. That's something that we, we can try to encourage. But you all you can really do is provide something that's really useful and something that's interesting or entertaining, of course.

Yeah. Right. So it's, um, I don't know, let's say two months down the line and we might not have to wait that long, but it's two months down the line and we've got four hundred people in our list. Okay. So what are we going to do? What's the next step? We don't want to mess this up. We don't want to send our first email out and get three hundred and ninety five Unsubscribes do we?

Absolutely not. Well, I would say let's take let's take a step back two months before we even start getting people into our list. And I want to set up a camp. We call it a campaign, but basically it's an automated email that goes out. So if you ever sign up for an email and you're like, let's go back to the, the lead magnet example, I want this checklist.

Mhm.

You don't sign up for somebody's checklist and say, uh, you know, oh, I love this. Put my name in, put my email in, go to the inbox, and then it's not there. I mean, I'm sure this has happened to people, but it shouldn't. They should get that freebie immediately in their inbox. In addition to a welcome to my email, you know, welcome to my email list. This is what you should expect to receive all of that stuff. But you know, I'm not going to sit you and I aren't going to sit around our, uh, email and just send that out to everybody individually. Luckily, it's, it's really, really easy to automate this. So you send that welcome email and that includes whatever it is that you want to say. Um, and you set it up to go out automatically when somebody signs up for your list. And that's something you should set up before people start signing up for your list so that every single person who signs up can get that welcome campaign.

In that case, to take a step even further back. And this is totally normal when I'm doing podcasts, if we jump all over the place, apologies, but you've got to get the tech stuff right as well. You've got to get the DNS stuff, the dMarc, the D Kim, the SPF records. Otherwise, as soon as people sign up, they. And you've promised them something. They don't get it because their email their email system thought your email was spam. So is that right? You know, actually all the testing and everything. And does he does a Weber help with that sort of thing and push people down the route of making sure they get the tech right?

Yeah, absolutely. We help. I mean, first of all, when you talk about SPF, when I started at a Weber, I had a whole module when I was, you know, getting oriented on SPF D, Mark D, Kim, all of this stuff super freaky. If you're not even if you are a tech person, it is. Yeah. Um, basically means that you, um, set up some stuff in the background. If you've ever set up a website, you set up this stuff called DNS and it basically connects all things in the right way. Don't worry about what's happening. You can do that for your email address too. and it means that gmail trusts you more. It means that Apple Mail trusts you more. Yahoo trusts you more, and when they don't trust you, you go into the spam folder. But in a Weber, a Weber, first of all, makes it really, really easy to set up this DNS, especially if you have your domain in GoDaddy, which a lot of people do. You can do it with just a couple clicks to connect that and get all of that stuff set up. But even if you don't, we have, you know, a really simple system for getting that done, plus the support team who can really help you out. Another thing that's important with that is choosing an email service provider that's already trusted by those platforms. So if you send mail through a Weber and send it to gmail, gmail is like, okay, I've gotten lots of mail from Weber customers. I, I know what it looks like because of the way that it's sent. It's got tech on the back side to, I'm going to trust this email more than if you went to maybe like an email service provider that allowed people to send a bunch of spam. Yeah, because Google's going to be like, well, that email service provider lets you send spam. So even just choosing a Weber in the first place, not even thinking about the tech stuff can help you, um, get all of that going. But yeah, should definitely make sure to just do the domain stuff. Don't even think about it. Hold your breath like it's the taxes and then you're done. Mhm.

Perfect.

Um, so yeah, so we'll send out our welcome email. You can set it up as a campaign too if you want to. Um, which means you send out an email and then you wait for a day and this is all set up in advance and automated. Then at another email, wait a day, send out another email. But if you're just getting started, you might not have a lot of content to send out.

And I think that's what I was driving at. You know, if you, if you're actually just starting to build a list, if you do a lot of work and you've got a, you know, maybe a five email campaign, and I picked up when I listened to a previous podcast that you were in that, you know, it's kind of like not like a magic number, but yeah, you know, have kind of five emails in a, in a sequence ready to go out. And you've put a lot of work into them while you're building your list. That might not be going out to many people. And by the time the list's up to a few hundred, it's kind of not even that evergreen anymore. Don't know if it was evergreen, it would be evergreen. That's the wrong thing to say. It's not as.

Relevant.

Relevant? Not that relevant. Yeah. So I guess that's where that's where I'm, that's what I'm driving at in our, you know, in our, in our usual from the coalface kind of way, you know, those people who they don't have anybody to send an email to. And would you, can you give somebody something for signing up and even let them know that it might be a couple of months till they get something else? Or would you not even let them know you would just let the list build in the background until you've got a decent sort of number of people in there so you can set a sequence off.

I mean this in the best possible way, but Nobody cares about your email and how often it's coming out, so you don't have to let them know. Um, I definitely send out the one welcome email, but what you can do as you're first getting going is you can actually ask people in that email what they might want to hear about in the future. Yeah. So you can put together, um, don't worry about like a poll or anything super techy like that. You can actually just do a series of questions laid out in the email. Like, would you want to hear about SEO in this example of marketers, right? SEO link building, um, social media marketing, uh, you know, local SEO or whatever email marketing, you can create each of those as links. And if somebody clicks on one of those links, you can tag them in your platform. So this person maybe wants to know about this or something that I also recommend that I feel like a lot of people don't necessarily do. You can put in that welcome email. Let me know what you want to hear about. I'm not going to try to guess. I'm not going to give you a list. Email me back and people will email you back. Especially if you if you talk as though you're a real person and you don't sound like you're coming from a big corporate machine like, hey, this is Kelsey. I'm just growing my business now. I'm trying to figure out what people actually need from me. Send me an email back and let me know what you need. And people will. And you can start to use that. Those responses, first of all, to build relationships with those people, but also to decide what kind of overall emails you want to be sending out.

Yeah. Are you, are they are people effectively segmenting themselves by going through this process? They're actually helping you segment the list that you're building. So you send out relevant information to specific people.

Yeah, absolutely. And they're also helping you drive the direction of your business. You know, if there are a ton of people who want help with social media marketing, maybe even though I started with digital marketing, that's the direction that I'm going to go in. Or at least I'm going to create a standalone product or service. You know, that that caters to those people. If what I'm finding is that those are all the people who found me online, those are all the people who signed up for my list. I might as well serve them. And then, yeah, you know, you talk about segmentation, which is basically just groups, right? Not all of your email subscribers or your customers or clients are going to be the same. But what they will be is similar to other people in that group, and they'll have similar interests or tastes. And so you can group them together technically on the back end, you know, in your a Weber account, you can group them together. These people care about social media. These people care about websites. Give them just a tag. It's just a little tag that says websites. But what you can do then in the future, and this we're not talking month one, we're talking month six here, but you can send out an email that just talks about websites to the people who care about websites. Sure. Or just gives a social media tip to the people who care about social media. Yeah.

And I mean, in years gone by, I've used various tools and I remember I don't really use it anymore, but I've used MailChimp. A lot of people have heard about MailChimp. And one of the things you could do is, you know, on the sign up email, on the sign up to get information, you could put in a bunch of checkboxes and, and let people segment themselves right from the get go. Now, do you think that's a bad idea? Do you think it's better to get them in and then try and get them to self segment and self tag? Or would you actually put them through the pain of making them think, you know Steve Krug's book? Don't make me think you're probably familiar with it. Do we avoid that? Keep it as simple as we can at sign up.

My recommendation is one additional question at most because like you said, the most important thing is to get them into your inbox. You know you don't want to hinder them from signing up in the first place, but something that is a drop down box of like, what do you want to hear about that's actually enticing? Because then they can see a list of the things that you're going to, you know, we were talking about how to entice them with your actual content. That's actually a sales pitch, right? That drop down of these are the things I'm going to be talking about. They're probably like, absolutely, yes, I want to hear about these things. I'm going to sign up, but I do not make them put in their location. That information can already be given to you. Um, don't make them answer a bunch of questions you can always ask in the future and tag people based off of that. Um, you really just want to get that email address. You don't want to give anybody a reason not to sign up for your email list if they're interested.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you've got them even remotely interested, you just don't want to get in the way of that, do you? You want to just make that as seamless as possible. Zero friction.

Absolutely.

Okay.

All right. So should we talk next steps on our on our email campaign, we got our one email sent out. We're asking people what they want to hear about. We are a month in, we got four hundred subscribers. We're doing great. And we want to send out that first, you know, newsletter or sales email or something like that. Yeah. Um, now that is where you're going to want to introduce, you know, hey, we are going, we're starting this newsletter. This is how often you should see it. Here's the kind of information we're planning on sending you and really set that expectation in that first email because the person hasn't heard from you potentially for a month, they might have forgotten that they even signed up for this list. And you don't want to have a bunch of people unsubscribing. So, you know, keep it, keep it short, don't make a sale. Try to make a sale on that first email. You can let people know what you do. Like this is what our business actually does, but mostly try to set expectations and provide content. And at that very first email is when you need to start testing. Now you can have talked to every you know, you probably have talked to every single one of your clients depending on your business type. Uh, you can have done all of the research. You can have a degree in English literature and you still don't know really what your customers, what your email subscribers want to hear from you until you test it. Yeah. And it's so, it's so crazy useful. And we call it a B testing or split testing, which basically you make two emails. If anyone's done research, you know, you know, that you just change one small thing about one of the emails. So maybe it's the subject line. This email has this subject line. This email has a different subject line. You know, this one in this one you said you added personalisation. Hi, Kelsey, welcome to my newsletter. And this one you just said, welcome to my newsletter and you send it out. You split your audience into two, you send it out and you look at the metrics and you start to see, okay, people like to hear about this. They like this less. And in those early days, when your list is small, you really need to use it as an iterative process, but not take too much away from the data because you kind of need a bigger list to really pull that data. But if you have an email where you put a, you know, click here button, and then in the other email you just linked, some text said, like, if you want this, click here. If you want to learn more, click here and you have a list of four hundred and twenty five more people clicked on the button than the link. That's significant. That's a significant number of results. That's right. So don't don't get too hung up on the onesie twosies. But test test, test test test. And you will just like. It'll be less frustrating when you test because you can really feel like you have a win. You know, you're like, well, I wrote both of these, but this one won. And then you can use that one. And then you test the next one. And it for people who don't like reading or writing for people who, um, have writer's block or have trouble getting over the inertia of starting, which is like everybody basically. Yeah. Like nobody sits down and is like, oh, I'm so excited to write this marketing email and send it out to a bunch of people. Um, doing that testing really early on and often, and basically every single time just helps you get so much better, so much faster. And it encourages you, you know, because every single time you get a win, when you test two of your own pieces of content, you always get a win.

Absolutely. And this obviously is, is, um, it's very much aligned with conversion rate optimisation in, in the web world in, you know, when, you know, we used some a B testing on our website, on the hero text on our home page. The main kind of this is if you, you know, this is how we can help you text. And it was, you know, the one that we're using now, it was just so much more engaging to people than the one that was there and had been there for about two years. And you don't have to guess, you can test. And so conversion rate optimisation, A/B testing, call it what you will. It's so powerful in so many aspects of digital marketing, not least of which email marketing.

Yeah. And, and, you know, I mean, this in the best possible way, but you also just don't know. You think you know, but you don't know, and you can't even Google it because your audience, your customer base is totally different from all of the other ones. They are very specific to you. So you can Google, you know, should I try emojis in my subject line? Should I do personalisation? Should I, you know, have a short subject line that's just two words versus a really long, long tail. One. We call it just a longer one with lots of words, and you can test that stuff, but nobody knows your audience except you, and you only know it once you test. And you know, it's, it's just once you start doing it, it's a totally addictive. Yeah. Because then, you know, you've got the data, you've got the research and, and it really helps you. And it's easy to do those tests. And I'd say email is the easiest way to do those tests. Yeah.

For sure.

Because you can just create two, you know, create an email, copy it, change one small thing, and then, you know, send it out as a split test, uh, in the platform itself. And you can even use that to actually drive some of the ways that you write your blog posts or you write your websites, you know, test out the words that people like to hear and be like, oh my gosh, people love hearing this. People hate hearing the word digital marketing, but they love seeing the word email and blogs. I'm using that all over my website instead of this, you know, other more ambiguous term.

One of the things it helps with as well is the conversations that happen sometimes either in marketing departments or just in businesses in general. Is that conversation? Well, I think it should be this. Well, I think it should be that way. You know what? Let's try both, see which one works. And it just gets rid of all of that kind of confusion, if you like, or, or adversity when it comes to content, whether it be on a web page or in an email or whatever it is.

Yeah, absolutely. And we run into that all the time at a Weber, because the people who build a website are super techy, and the people who use a Weber aren't. And so, you know, us as geeks have to figure out what what is it that the Non-geeks want to hear? You know, we can't let them know how geeky we are. We've gotta, we gotta play it cool. But we don't know how to be cool. But we can figure it out by testing one hundred percent.

Yeah. Okay.

So we're really still not that cool though, to be honest.

Pretty cool, I think. Pretty cool. Right. So we've got our list. It's it's built nicely. We've now put, have we put a campaign together? We have we put a series of emails. Have we are we are we, are we just doing a testing phase initially or are we testing constantly.

Well we got to start testing right when we start sending out. And um, what I would do, you know, with, with ours is I would spend maybe a month or two sending out as many emails as we can put together the time to do. And I like to sort of generally do a, it depends on your business type, but I'd say when you're getting started, try to do two pieces of content, two pieces of useful content, and then have the third one be a sales pitch. Now you can play around with this a little bit where you do useful content sales pitches at the bottom of every single email. So this is another thing you can test, but I feel like a lot of times people get really down on email at that about one month mark, even though they're growing their list, even though, you know, people are are interacting with their emails because they're not making any money from it yet. And I think you need to start straight away pitching your services to make money. I mean, email's got this statistic that is thrown around a whole bunch. I'm not even sure if it's true anymore, but it's got to be somewhat relevant, which is for every one dollar you spend, you make an average of thirty eight dollars off of that. Yeah. And it's true. Email is this platform where people are expecting to buy from it. The large enterprise companies have set up our expectations where we browse on social media. You know, sometimes we look on websites for research, but we make purchases in our inboxes all of the time. Yeah. And that might not be everybody, but it is a lot of people. Yeah. And so start making that sales pitch. Listen, you know, we've got these packages. Uh, here's how you sign up for a free consultation. This is what it based off of. You know what I've been telling you? Here are the five things that you might need that we can offer as a service. Or this is, you know, if you're selling a product, this is the most popular product like of all of the products that I sell. This one is what most people love. Here it is. You want to buy it, click here. You know what I mean? And so it's very important to me that people start making that sales pitch, not like don't just hound people with sales emails, but do it at least every once in a while because that's how you make sales.

Mhm. And in a B2B context where it's an engineering company who makes something that costs a lot of money, millions of pounds, maybe. Can they still use email marketing effectively, perhaps just to establish subject matter expertise, thought leadership They're never going to sell, you know, an oil rig in an email, but can they use it to make sure that the people in their list are aware that the expertise they have might be something that that might, might, might want to buy, for example, because, you know, the example of like getting an email that's got something in it to entice you to go and buy something. I get, and I know that, you know, maybe this is slightly away from, um, the majority, maybe of the people that you work with. Do you think intuitively, do you think that email can still be used effectively when the chances of selling something from an email is slim?

It's absolutely.

And I wasn't sure if I was getting my point across, but I think I have.

No, you totally are. And you absolutely can still make sales using email to what we call nurture, right? To build up your own, um, expertise to share stories of people in the past who have bought this thing. And, uh, it was really useful for them. Or the process was really easy, or you were able to cater to them in a way that your competitors can't. Or, you know, this is why somebody else wanted this oil rig, right? Um, and here's the reason that it still works. You, you sort of think in a big picture, like I'm selling this to a company, right? I'm selling this to a big, uh, organisation, but you're not. There's one person or a couple of people who buy that product from you. There's maybe a person who wants it, and they might advocate to the person who makes the purchase decisions. And so what you need to do is find that advocate and find that purchase decision maker and get into their inboxes.

Sure.

And like, you know, enter enterprise companies, big companies are still made up of people who make decisions.

Of course, people forget that in a B2B context, you still people to people.

Totally, totally. It's just a person. Just like if you get somebody on a consultation or you make a pitch or you make a, you know, draft something out for them, that is a person that you're talking to that is a or a couple of people. And so finding those people and, you know, this is something that across the board, it can be really difficult to do, but they're called like personas, right? There's like a user persona and a buyer persona. We talk about this all the time in product marketing, and the user persona is probably the person who is going to be implementing that or, um, you know, managing the building of it or managing the, you know, the installation. And that person wants to make sure the process is easy. They want to make sure the product is good. They want to make sure that you have worked with other people. And, and those people were happy with the whole experience. Yeah. Um, and then there's the purchaser, and that's the person who wants to make sure there's value for money there. They want to make sure that they're not going to deal with a lot of other issues. They want to make sure that this thing that they're buying from you is going to make them more money than it cost, you know, or, you know, in ten folds, depending on what it is that you're selling. Yeah. And if you can identify those people, um, and get into their inboxes, and it can be tough, especially if you're first getting started in our example. Um, but if you already have customers who are like that, you can say, you know what? What is it that you read? How is it that you learn more or how is it that you consume content? How is it that you what, what is that information that you wish that you had more of? Yeah. And then be that resource and be that resource in their inbox. And it's especially pertinent with B2B because, uh, you know, we, the first thing I do when I get into my job, and that probably almost every single person in their entire lives who has a job and a business like this is you open up your inbox and you read all of your emails, you go through and you, I want this, I don't want this, blah, blah, blah. I get newsletters where it's like, I probably should have hopped just straight into work. But first I read this little newsletter, you know, because it had a little bit of marketing information and it inspired me to get going. And, uh, the other thing that's so great about sending B2B is a most inboxes in a business, you know, especially Google don't have that promotions tab that you get sent to. Yeah, you kind of just go into their inbox. So, you know, all of this is, is hard. It's not easy to provide content. It's not easy to be a subject matter expert and write about it. Well, but you should try because if you do it right, it can mean like the Exponential growth of your business?

Yeah. For sure. Okay. As we perhaps start to come to the end of this chat, just a couple of very practical questions. Uh, unless there's anything. Are you happy for me just to ask practical questions? So we've got, we've got, we've got our campaign set up. We've got things moving. We're testing things. So some of the key metrics that that should be helping us understand how well or, or not how well it's going. For example, um, you, what sort of open rate should ring alarm bells? And I think for anybody listening, when you use tools like a Weber, you don't just send emails out and then wait and see if the phone rings. You know, you get lots of useful information back from the platform, which tells you how many successfully arrived and how many people opened them and what links they clicked when they opened them, all that kind of stuff. Yeah. So just a very basic metric would be open rate. Would it is that fair or is that with the new way that everything's working now with, you know what the thing that Apple's kind of introduced? Are we going to lose that metric? There's a there's talk of it, isn't there?

Yeah. We actually already have lost the metric open rate. I mean, if your open rates below like a ten percent even what the Apple update did and Apple basically, you know, to break this down a little bit, Apple basically said, we're not going to tell the email service providers like a Weber whether or not somebody opened an email anymore. Yeah, we are going to, you know, they sort of fake open all of the emails. So any email you send to somebody who opens it in an Apple tool. Yeah. Looks like it was open even if it wasn't. Yeah. And that is a huge, it's like forty percent or something of people who use that to, to read their emails. So it's a little bit of a now not very useful metric anymore. That open rate. So I hate to break it to you. It used to be a great one. Um, but you know, don't trust that one too much anymore. Yeah. What you really can do is try to make something in your email engaging enough to click on.

Yeah.

Um, and if you can track that now, that's going to be, if you have a, you send an email out to a hundred people and five to ten people click on something that's pretty good. Um, potentially you have content that's more enticing to click on, um, some of, some of your contents may be just not going to be, it's going to be like you told the whole story in the email. They didn't want to make the purchase that day. And unfortunately, that's something that we just have to deal with. But if you can have one small thing in every email to try to entice people to click on, maybe it's the puppy picture, right? Mhm. Click here for our weekly puppy picture.

Click here. Because this is not just a picture. It's a video. Click it.

It's a video. Oh my gosh. It's one of my favorites. Is a rooster wearing pants too good. I can watch that video all day, but, um, but if you can, um, you know, work a little bit to get people to click on that, then you can get a better idea of how many people who are actually opening your emails. But don't forget, the main thing that you're looking for is sales. Yeah. So, uh, you can obsess over these click rates. You can obsess over these open rates. What you can do is every once in a while, um, send an email with maybe like a feedback request form saying like, hey, I don't know if you guys are opening my emails anymore. I'd love to hear from you on, you know, what you like. Uh, again, people get a lot of feedback request forms, so you're not going to get one hundred percent response on that, but you can get a little bit better of an idea of who's opening based on how many people are clicking and what they say. Mhm. Um, But in the long run, you are successful when you make a sale. Now that is a little bit harder for this example that you said, like, if you're selling an oil rig and that that maybe takes a year or two to sell, you know, that's a long time before you know, if it's working. Yeah. Or longer probably. Um, but do your best, you know, and, and try some of these other little tricks to, to gauge the metrics. And you know what, we'll let you know when things change. If there's something that how, you know, we've figured out how to navigate around this Apple issue. Um, and we go back to open rates being totally right. You all know about it. Sign up for a newsletter. It's the first thing we'll tell you. Um, but you know, checking those click rates is really something that's, uh, that's the most important thing to pay attention for.

And I guess a very simple metric, correct me if I'm wrong would be if you're sending it out and you're not getting reported as spam and lots of people are not unsubscribing. That's kind of telling you that. Well, all right, I don't know. I might not know anything else, especially if they're not clicking some something enticing in the email. But if they're not unsubscribing and they're not reporting you, then that's kind of good as well, is it?

Yeah, that's very good. And to that point, I would say that's, you know, circling back around to content. That's why you kind of want to be offering new, useful, interesting content. That's why the quality is more important than the quantity. Because sending out the same email over and over will result in people marking you as spam or people unsubscribing. And you're not spam, right? You're a small business.

Yeah.

That's right. You know, speak as though you're a real person. Say new things in each email. Make sure that it's useful and you shouldn't. You shouldn't have to worry about too many unsubscribes. And you shouldn't have to worry about any people sending you to spam. But don't worry too much about those unsubscribes the, you know, a couple of them that you have because those people were never going to buy from you anyway.

That's right. And speaking about those, just as we start to wrap things up, do you think it's good to make it easy for people to leave? Because sometimes I've got an email come in and it's like unsubscribe here. And when I click it, I have to then do something else to. And I just, oh, I can't be bothered. I'll do it later. So I haven't unsubscribed. Whereas the legit ones, you literally just click on subscribe. It takes you to a web page and says, hey, sorry to lose you, but you've now been unsubscribed. You think you should make it as easy as possible for people not to receive your stuff?

Yeah, I mean, I don't think I would do what I, you know, I'm going against what I said before. I wouldn't put the button real big, like, hey, I'm subscribed here. Definitely put it in your footer because that's required by law.

That's what people expect to see it.

Yeah. People expect to see it in the footer. Um, you can keep it kind of small. Um, and if you do set up a, uh, email, you know, campaign or what we call broadcast, sending out an email through a platform like a Weber by default, it makes it easy and you actually have to go in and make it harder, right? Like I know what you're talking about. You go to that page and it says.

Uh, now put your email address in.

eighteen different options. Do you want to, uh, receive our marketing, uh, a emails or marketing B emails? And you're like, no, I don't want any of them. That's right. And also, you know, let, let me go and yeah. Oh, uh, sign in. Okay. And then you'll get the yeah. All right. And within two to five weeks we will have unsubscribed you. That's right.

I've seen that.

Come on man.

I know it's email. You can do it right now. Okay. Um.

And you know what? Sometimes people if that happens, sometimes people will go back to their inbox and mark you as spam. And that's why you want to make it easier.

Yeah. That's right. Just just finally, any any absolute do's and absolute don'ts around email marketing. Um, we've covered a lot in this chat.

My absolute do is email marketing. Yeah. Um, another thing I think is really important that we didn't really touch on too much today is that your emails should look good. Um, people want to see good looking emails. It's not that hard. There's tons of templates that you can use. Right? It's already been designed by an email designer. You can go in and change maybe a color, add your logo, but make it look good, make it look consistent, make it look consistent with your brand. If your website's blue, use that same color of blue in your emails just so that people feel it's like a weird feeling, right? People want to like your emails, and if you send them pretty, they will like them more. Yeah. Um, a Weber has a cool integration with Canva. So if you are making designs in Canva, which is just unbelievably easy. You can pull those automatically into a website just with a couple of clicks right in the platform. And we also have templates that you can use, but yeah, spend a little bit more time. And just on that first one, you can have them kind of look, you know, unless you're, you've got a good design team or you've got a marketing team or an agency that you're working with to do this for you. If you're just doing it by yourself or you're, you know, the only marketer on your team and you're like, oh, I don't have that many design skills. You can design one and then just continue to use that same template each time you send.

It, like file servers.

Templates. Yeah. Um, and, and spend that little bit of extra time. I also, another thing I'll always say is absolutely, send it to yourself before you send out the email. And maybe if you've got somebody else on your team or a friend or something you can send it to before you send the email. They'll be like, typo, you know. And it's just so nice when you don't have those typos. Um, but don't get too caught up and do eventually just click send. It's, it's going to be okay.

You know, when you first start doing it, it's kind of a heart stopping moment, isn't it? You think, oh, this is going to go to like three, four hundred people or maybe three, four thousand people. And that hurts. And but we've all received those emails that almost immediately you get another one saying, I'm really sorry. We didn't mean to send you that. And to be honest, I usually just smile. I just think, oh, some poor, poor, some poor person is at the end of that button. Who they didn't mean to click and I feel for them. Um, other people? Not so much. Listen, when it comes to testing, just a question. I don't know if A.weber does this, but email just like websites, email looks different in in all the different clients. I mean, I personally don't load images, so my emails come in. So if your email is heavily dependent on images when I receive it, it's not going to look right because it all, all the images are not being loaded by default. I don't think I'm alone in that. I think a lot of people do that. And if I look at it on outlook, it's going to be different. If I look at it on. So does does the A.weber help at all with like it's going to look like this in outlook. It's going to like look like this in Apple. It's going to look like this in gmail and kind of cross not cross-browser, but cross client check. Does it do that or not?

No. Um, what a lover will show you in the preview is what it looks like on a desktop computer versus what it looks like on mobile. And that's going to be the biggest difference. That's where you'll really find the problems with an image that looks great on desktop. And then you get it on mobile and it looks totally stupid. There's a lot of problems with like, if you put text on an image in the way that, you know, responsive designs work, the text will be about the same size on desktop as mobile. It just gets like squeezed together. So it's longer, but the text in an image itself, which we definitely don't recommend when you bring it to mobile, the text looks tiny. Yeah, because it scales down with the image itself. So that's something that you can look at. There are tools you can use to look at. If you're. If you're worried about what it looks like, you're like, oh my gosh, I, for some reason, I have a bunch of customers who use AOL. Yeah. Still is AOL still around? I think it is. Um, so I want to see what it looks like on AOL. Uh, it's, it's not coming to the top of my mind. Maybe you can think of it, but there are tools you can use to plug your email in there.

Okay. Yeah. And we use Browserstack when we're testing web pages. I mean, that's fantastic. You can literally spin up a, a windows ninety five machine running Internet Explorer six if you really want to. So yeah, there probably are. There probably are some, some neat tools out there for that.

But and don't, don't get too caught up on that either. You know, I agree people in outlook are used to seeing emails the same way. If they're always broken a little bit in the same way, that's okay. Yeah.

You know I agree, I agree.

Um, okay.

Yeah, absolutely. Is there anything that we should have covered because I'm, I'm terrible for jumping around. Is there anything that we should have covered that we didn't cover today because we've talked for a long time.

Um, no, I think that we did just about everything. You know, we really did some basic basics. We, we talked real basics. Um, there are a lot of things that you can talk about that are, uh, once you get those basics down, really like diving deep into, um, you know, pulling products automatically into your emails so that somebody can, you know, click to make a sale. You don't have to copy and paste a bunch of stuff. There's a lot of other integration stuff that you can work on. Um, but a lot of that has to do with the specific type of business that you're in, of course. And so, you know, do your own research, feel free to reach out to me. Um, on Twitter. I'm at Kelsey Colorado. Okay. Um, and obviously our, yeah, our support team at a Weber is really phenomenal too. So if you like, have an idea, like, I think I want to do this thing, but I don't quite know how, feel free to reach out to them either on chat or by phone or email, and they'll walk you through the process of getting that specific tiny little thing you need done, done.

And more generally, there's great information on the site as well. You know, frequently asked questions, how to resources, great blog posts, all that kind of stuff.

Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. All of that stuff is available on our site. And I would be remiss to not mention that as a podcast listener. Um, we do have two tiers of plans. We've got a free plan, uh, which is free forever. There's a limit on subscribers and there's a limit to some of that functionality that we talked about today, the testing and the segmentation. Um, so definitely get into the free plan to try things out, but you can actually get a free month of our pro plan. Um, as a podcast listener, just go to go dot dot com slash podcast and sign up there. And that way you can try out some of these, uh, more advanced features. Now if you are thinking about migrating, You've already got a list. You've got it in MailChimp. Say you're like, I'm tired of this platform. I want something simpler. I want more support, something like that. Uh, we do, um, free migrations for you. So all of your templates, we'll pull over your landing pages, we'll pull over all of your lists and make sure it's clean and, you know, just reach out to us for that as well.

That's a great offer because that would be a barrier to some people. They'd be kind of, oh, well, we've been using this for a while and it'll be such a hassle to move and to know that you guys would take care of that is fantastic.

Absolutely. And it's a tech team. You know, we are a, in essence, a tech company. And so the migrations aren't sort of being hacked together. It's really a tech and design team that dives in there. And they're a whole team of like four or five of them, I think, who really know exactly what they're doing when it comes to migrating.

Good stuff, good stuff. I think that's, I think we've, I think you're right, we've covered a lot of basics in that. And I think it's exactly what people listening to the podcast would have wanted to hear. It's been a joy. I've certainly learned a lot speaking with you and great to hear about a Weber. It looks like a great a great product which which really is, is there to help people who are maybe a little bit reticent, not quite sure, think it's going to be techie, think it's going to be hard. The software has been built for those people.

Absolutely. Yeah. And I've had a wonderful time coming on, David. I've learned some things too.

Good to hear. Good to hear. If you listen to the show and you want to come on to, um, to the podcast, then you can get in touch with us at redevolution.com/digital-marketing-from-the-coalface or just come to redevolution.com. The guys behind the podcast. Uh, it's been a pleasure. And, um, maybe we will do a follow up. Um, at some point, Kelsey, where we can go into a bit more detail about some of the more advanced aspects of email marketing. That would be great if you fancy that.

Yeah, I'd love to.

Good stuff. In the meantime, thank you so much for coming on and everybody else. I'll speak to you next time.